F3: F3 / PIX 240 and "jaggies" ???

petermullett

petermullett

Well-known member
Well moving off of the eternal subject of the new F's for a moment I'd like to throw a question out to you all, something I have been trying to resolve with my F3 / PIX 240 setup.
Recently when I look at the media from PIX and the SxS cards, ( recorded simultaneously ), I am finding that I am getting "jagged" edges to the video recorded on the PIX, but not the media recorded on the SxS cards. Obviously the PIX media is of a higher resolution, that's what I'd like to be able to use but there's times I cannot because of this problem. The "jaggies" are most noticeable where there's a sharp edge in the image, and one of contrast between that edge and the background. Movement also produces the effect, either camera or subject movement.
Maybe this is something that's just evident on viewing in FCP Studio on my 27" iMac, a problem the computer / graphic card may have displaying the files? I don't know. I don't have a large production monitor here to check it out on, just the iMac.
This happens with Slog as well as regular recording. The SxS card media doesn't appear to have this problem / effect.
Right now I am using the camera setup for PAL and the PIX 240 takes it's feed out of port A, ( for Slog ).
I've tried setting the PIX at "same as output" and at SD's suggestion of 1080i 50. No difference. The camera is set to PAL at the highest resolution / output.
There's obviously a setting I've got wrong or am missing, any ideas?
Thanks all...
 
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Do you get the jaggies when recording just to the PIX and not the F3 at the same time?
 
Hello Grug.....Yes, that happens. The SxS cards media is always just fine whether recorded on their own with Slog LUT applied, not applied, or in regular non Slog mode. The PIX media always displays the "jaggies" with or without Slog and in regular non Slog mode too.
It's pretty minimal, it only effects those parts of the image where there's a defined light/dark hard line, and most of the time I wouldn't notice this effect, except of course now most of the time I'm looking for it!
 
mmayer said:
Peter,

What version of PIX firmware are you running?

What was your input FrameRate and Resolution?
Click to expand...

Hello Matt, thanks for responding...
The camera output is set at HQ 1920 / 50i PAL
Dual Link & Gamma 1.5G YPbPr422 & Slog

The Slog LUT for the SxS cards is set to P1 709 (800%)

The PIX is at 2.01
and is set to SDI input 1080i50

Hi Andrew, "sharpening?"....nothing applied as far as I know, you mean in post?
This effect shows up when the files are ingested into FCP7.0.3, before any edit / effects applied
 
Just a guess - that the software is deinterlacing it . Was the internal SxS footage 1080i50 as well , or 1080p25 ?
 
My guess is that FCP is displaying interlaced video on a computer (progressive) screen and dropping resolution to accomodate playback. Have you checked the footage going out through a capture card to a proper reference monitor? Very difficult to make assessment of footage, FCP 7 in particular, from computer display.

Ned
 
Peter,

You're seeing interlacing on your computer screen, which is not wrong, it's a by-product of watching interlaced footage on a computer screen as opposed to proper monitor.

FCP handles different interlaced formats in different ways for on-screen display. Sometimes it takes shortcuts on interlaced formats, blending the fields together. Sometimes it doesn't. Depends on the codec mostly. Sometimes other factors influence it.

Pipe the video out of FCP via Blackmagic card or AJA product to a proper monitor, and then take note. I suspect you'll find the ProRes material is in fact fine.
 
nateweaver said:
Peter,

You're seeing interlacing on your computer screen, which is not wrong, it's a by-product of watching interlaced footage on a computer screen as opposed to proper monitor.

FCP handles different interlaced formats in different ways for on-screen display. Sometimes it takes shortcuts on interlaced formats, blending the fields together. Sometimes it doesn't. Depends on the codec mostly. Sometimes other factors influence it.

Pipe the video out of FCP via Blackmagic card or AJA product to a proper monitor, and then take note. I suspect you'll find the ProRes material is in fact fine.
Click to expand...


Thanks Nate, Ned too.....what you say probably makes sense. Unfortunately all I have to work on here at my place in France is the 27" iMac and a second 24" Cinema display, so there's no way to output to a "proper monitor" if I had one. There's not a TV at this house either, ( deliberately so ), so I cannot test the PIX media by playing it directly from the recorder to the TV via HDMI out....Would that work as a test anyway?

I will have to send the footage as it is to the editor on this project in Paris and see if he can replicate those "jaggies", hopefully not.
I'm just reviewing what's been shot before sending it on, and seeing those effects on screen started the alarm bells ringing.

There's no FCP setting I could change to counteract what you think is the cause of this?
It's odd that I don't see the same thing in the SxS media.

Anyway, thanks for the help, I appreciate it.....
Peter
 
petermullett said:
so I cannot test the PIX media by playing it directly from the recorder to the TV via HDMI out....Would that work as a test anyway?
Click to expand...

I realized after I hit post that would work too.

petermullett said:
I will have to send the footage as it is to the editor on this project in Paris and see if he can replicate those "jaggies", hopefully not.
I'm just reviewing what's been shot before sending it on, and seeing those effects on screen started the alarm bells ringing.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't even mention it.

Any editor worth his salt knows this stuff anyway, but in case he's green, personally, I wouldn't confuse him or cause a stir.

If you were deliberate and careful in both your recording format in camera (1080/50i) and on the Pix as you describe (1080/50i), there's nothing wrong.
 
Nate Weaver said:
I realized after I hit post that would work too.

I wouldn't even mention it.

Any editor worth his salt knows this stuff anyway, but in case he's green, personally, I wouldn't confuse him or cause a stir.

If you were deliberate and careful in both your recording format in camera (1080/50i) and on the Pix as you describe (1080/50i), there's nothing wrong.
Click to expand...

Thanks again Nate, the editor is great so I have no worries there. I just didn't want to Fedex the PIX media on the HD up to him in Paris if there was a problem with it.
I've spent too many years with "the cat on the shoulder", ( and still using mine ), and although this digital world we live in now is supposed to be simpler / better I can't say I entirely see it that way yet.
A Luddite I'm afraid......

Best,
Peter
 
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Maybe I haven't got the gist of what the problem is here, but I didn't think you can get 50i from output A on the F3? It's always 50PsF. Personally, I've found the PIX is best set to 1080PsF25 or better still 1080p25 when using output A. If you want a true interlaced output you have to use the HDSDI output.
 
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