F3: F3 matching alexa at 24p

[litpixel]

Lit, I missed your earlier info that the F3 was all MOS or short B-roll stuff, so yes a speed up from 23.976 to 24.000 before cutting will solve everything

And Dermot, I knew about duplicated frames failing, but it would be a way for the editor to keep sync with other elements if needed to get the cut done, and then snip out the duplicate frames after the cut was built.

Sounds like it's all gonna be ok! Just gotta get that assist to turn off frame blending!

thanks Nate. that sounds reassuring. will be going in today to view so hopefully that will solve it

 

[litpixel]

alot of shows (most really) are done at 23.98, that's not an issue for filmout, a frame is always a frame, the issue is mixing framerates, then you have to deal with one of; blended / held / optical flow'd frames...

there's where the issues arrise

Dermot. appreciate your comments but can you clarify please. most on here are saying that once the frame blending is turned off the 23.976 will sit on the 24 timeline properly and not cause an issue. also to rewrap the metadata if I understand correctly. are you still saying that you know for sure that that is unacceptable for DCP? and that any of those frames in a final cut going to DCP will fail QC? that would mean they are in fact unusable and any effort to make them work is a waste of time. do I understand you correctly?

 

[Nate Weaver]

Dermot. appreciate your comments but can you clarify please. most on here are saying that once the frame blending is turned off the 23.976 will sit on the 24 timeline properly and not cause an issue. also to rewrap the metadata if I understand correctly. are you still saying that you know for sure that that is unacceptable for DCP? and that any of those frames in a final cut going to DCP will fail QC? that would mean they are in fact unusable and any effort to make them work is a waste of time. do I understand you correctly?

I don't want to put words in his mouth, but I think what he's talking about is speeding up 23.976 to 24.000 for a film out. ("a frame is always a frame"). It's done all the time and is legit.

 

[Dermot]

Dermot. appreciate your comments but can you clarify please. most on here are saying that once the frame blending is turned off the 23.976 will sit on the 24 timeline properly and not cause an issue. also to rewrap the metadata if I understand correctly. are you still saying that you know for sure that that is unacceptable for DCP? and that any of those frames in a final cut going to DCP will fail QC? that would mean they are in fact unusable and any effort to make them work is a waste of time. do I understand you correctly?

I don't have enough knoledge of offline tools to say for sure that turning off frame blending in the offline will not resualt in held frames, what i do have knoledge of that once the AAF/XML/EDL is passed on to finishing/gradeing if the metadata refrences a clip with a 23.98 timebase then steps must be taken to sort it, and at that point (picture is locked) changes are an order of maganitude more complicated / expensive

The frames you shot are fine, but someone / somewhere needs to change the relationship of timecode to the frames

the options is see are;

1) Rewrapping to embed 24true timecode will make for a smooth workflow

2) If you dont' re-wrap then the show becomes unlocked and it's fixed in finishing/gradeing

3) a held frane is caught by QC (and it's very likely it will) it has always been marked as a "3" (unacceptable,show rejected) - but the last time i saw a held frame was 2009... and that was deliberate, a part of a VFX shot - still failed

4) If in the view of the facility creating the QC report thinks blended frames are objectional, then it also is "3", this is far more likely in a flimout than in broadcast

5) If in the view of the same QC facility a opticalflow shot has artifacts that are objectional, then the same, once again they set the bar much higher for a filmout than broadcast, so something that might rate a "1" in broadcast can be a "3" for filmouts

No payment will be released to the producers until the show has a QC pass, usualy at this point in the production the bank charges for interest that has been building since the first day of pre-prod will be significant, like a new BMW every day's worth of bank charges, you don't want to be the one responcable for a QC fail, time and money spent fixing, printing out and then re-QC'n the show

best bet is to view ANY speedchange for filmout as a VFX shot, use opticalflow and paint/roto boundry violations untill it's nearly perfect on a 16' screen

best bet for you is to change the relationship of timecode to the frames before it enters editorial!

I still think that any jitter the offline editor see's is enterily trivial in the bigger picture

 

[litpixel]

thanks so much for the responses. my mind is more at ease now. the post house in question is not familiar with dealing with this sort of thing and its a first low budget feature so there were flags being raised instantly. in one way its a good thing. but having talked to some more people it appears that a B camera not reliant on sync can just be taken in 24 for the timeline with the slight speed up. the point about the metadata and making sure its 24 before QC is helpful and I will pass it on. I'm waiting to hear back as to whether they have figured it out themselves yet. I'm just a cameraman so I don't want to step on peoples toes too early