F3: F3 for docs??

Barons said:
I have an Alphatron - EVF an absolute necessity in my opinion, and the Solid system is great, but the Berkey top plate system prevents getting the finder close enough to the camera body, so we are machining a new titanium plate that allows the Solid dovetail to move in almost an inch.
Click to expand...

i'd be interested in hearing more about this. i have an Alphatron and had been planning on getting the Solid mount, which i understand requires a Berkey top plate for the f3, but i didn't realize it stuck the finder farther out.
 
Hm... Seems like the F3 isn't the best option for docs. It doesn't communicate with most lenses, at least not the ones you'd want to use, you can't relocate the grip or something to the front handles and the need for an external recorder just adds more worries and weight. Seems like a lot of compromises just for the sakes of getting good IQ. The only thing it's going for it regarding docs is it's great sensitivity. At the moment C300 looks more appealing to me. Am I missing something here??
 
KINOKS said:
Hm... Seems like the F3 isn't the best option for docs. It doesn't communicate with most lenses, at least not the ones you'd want to use, you can't relocate the grip or something to the front handles and the need for an external recorder just adds more worries and weight. Seems like a lot of compromises just for the sakes of getting good IQ. The only thing it's going for it regarding docs is it's great sensitivity. At the moment C300 looks more appealing to me. Am I missing something here??
Click to expand...

Nope, I think the C300 is clearly more appealing for documentary and ENG-type work, it's lighter, and with the internal codec it's a more stable and robust platform.
 
doesn't the c300 still need some rigging if you're going to have it off the sticks for any length of time?
 
Depends how you're shooting really, if you want to put it on your shoulder, then yes. But unlike the F3, it's light enough to handhold for reasonable periods of time. In fact one of the big advantages of the C300 for doco work, is that to most people it looks like a big DSLR in people's hands (when you haven't got great bloody microphones and things hanging off it at least) so it can work very well for 'stealthy' shooting too.
 
It's a shame sony didn't bother with a better codec:( Oh well I guess we got it now...in the F5:) hahaha
 
Grug said:
Depends how you're shooting really, if you want to put it on your shoulder, then yes. But unlike the F3, it's light enough to handhold for reasonable periods of time. In fact one of the big advantages of the C300 for doco work, is that to most people it looks like a big DSLR in people's hands (when you haven't got great bloody microphones and things hanging off it at least) so it can work very well for 'stealthy' shooting too.
Click to expand...

i dunno, that doesn't sound like a very clear advantage to me. most cameras are ok to handhold for short periods, or sporadically. for me (and i assume for a lot of others, but i'm just speaking for myself), doc and verité usually means i could be off the sticks all day. and a big dslr in the hands doesn't seem like a good choice. this is why i'm frequently dismayed when folks point to the c300 as a better doc camera, when it sounds like they're saying - without rigging, you can get away with it sometimes.
 
MPB said:
i dunno, that doesn't sound like a very clear advantage to me. most cameras are ok to handhold for short periods, or sporadically. for me (and i assume for a lot of others, but i'm just speaking for myself), doc and verité usually means i could be off the sticks all day. and a big dslr in the hands doesn't seem like a good choice. this is why i'm frequently dismayed when folks point to the c300 as a better doc camera, when it sounds like they're saying - without rigging, you can get away with it sometimes.
Click to expand...

I never (okey, almost never) shot hand held. It's mostly either from the stick or from the shoulder. But in those occasions that I do want to shot hand held it's nice to have a camera that actually allows you to do so... I agree that you need a rig for the C300 just as you need one for the F3. What bothers me actually the most is the lens department. IMHO C300 wins here. As for the C300 internal codec this is something that I would have to live with. A 50Mbs 8 bit codec with a LOG gamma is not something that I would like to shoot with. And for this reason alone I wont buy the C300. Maybe if it had the Wide DR gamma... It's the F3s IQ that's really drawing me to it. I guess I value IQ above all the most. What I would be happy the most is an HPX3700:)

Which shoulder pad can be moved front to back easily? Is it at all possible to create such a rig that can be put from shoulder to stick in a matter of few seconds? Has anybody created something like this?
 
not sure what you mean about moving front to back. but i use this one;

http://www.shapewlb.com/en/product/...-release-baseplate-_129.aspx?id_page_parent=1

there are a couple other manufacturers with a similar design. this is meant to be used with a standard Sony V-plate on the tripod. the bottom is arched for your shoulder and a pad is held in place with velcro, so it can be removed when you put it on the tripod. you can almost get away with not removing the pad, but not quite. the velcro probably isn't the best solution, and every time i take the pad off i'm afraid i'm going to lose track of it. but overall i'm pleased with the design. it takes rods front and back, which can be quite handy, or a necessity depending on your battery system.

i use the switronix EX-L96 batteries, which run a good while, have a d-tap and are lighter than having an adapter plate and battery hanging off the back.
 
One consideration is that shooting off the shoulder results in a very different kind of image than holding a camera and using the LCD (and stabilization) for off-tripod use. The LCD option looks very amateurish to me and prevents an organic camera feel as the camera is almost an extension of the cameraman. The F3/F5/F55 can be built for shoulder shooting, but they will never be close to a high end 2/3" camcorder or Aaton. I am having a top plate machined this week to make the Alphatron/Solid system work properly. It's possible to accomplish the sane the same thing - moving the finder closer to the camera body - with another Berkey extension plate and then two more pieces from Solid, but then you have something like six different metal pieces, all just to attach the finder, so I'm going for a simpler and lighter solution. If it comes out OK, I'll post pix and make them available. My rig now weighs in at 23 lbs, almost exactly what my Panasonic 3000 weighed with lens, batt, etc. I wish it was about 5 lbs lighter - Aaton weight. A much lighter package is difficult to shoot with and get reasonably stable shots unless you are using stabilization, which has its own set of problems.
Re: the Ergocine - from what I can see Zach has some kind of Vocas rig which is looks superior to the Ergo system as the handles out extend a bit more, but the Vocas pieces add up to more than twice the Ergo rig, which is OK. The external on/off switch is a great idea, but is very expensive and adds yet another cable to what is a overly large collection already. The assign 4 button works fine and is free.
As far as the 300 goes, it seems a shame to go to all the compromises with large sensor and then record to 8 bit. The XAVC on the F55 is its best feature and I wish the F3 had an SR quality internal recording for 1080, but it is what it is, and with some fiddling, a good system can be had.
 
in the hand or on the shoulder, there are advantages to each. and disadvantages. i learned to shoot on the vx1000 and when i started shooting shoulder-mount cameras i initially found it restricting and less dynamic. but now, a full day with an hvx200 makes me hate the world. i know how to do it and do it well, and be both fluid and rock solid. arms make better shock absorbers while moving. but it hurts after a while. in general i'd rather have a somewhat heavier camera on my shoulder.
 
I Wrote earlier about my base plate. I is relatively cheap TrusMT plate with built in shoulder pad and front/rear rods... It can be mounted on sticks by Sony plate or with out it by attaching any quick release plate directly to the bottom of it. It goes from shoulder to sticks easy just like "old" full size video cameras...
only thing that I have it ready, if I am shooting off shoulder is to mount handles after I take the camera out of the bag. Another 30secs (oh, my!)...

I don't get what is the "disadvantage" of F3 in lens department mentioned earlier??
If anything, F3 has a flexibility of both still lenses AND all the fine PL optics... With c300, you have one or the other. Yes, c300 has IS, and auto focus... But, come on what are we talking here? Next thing, we need auto exposure as well?...

Will IS option be better (if any) to putting a camera steady on the shoulder... If your shot is shaky when F3 camera is on the shoulder, most likely it will be shaky with c300 handheld with IS... And, if you are on stick, I choose F3 with manual everything on the lens over plasticky EOS lenses with no Fstop ring on the lens, and no proper manual focus friction with no hard stops...
 
MPB said:
i dunno, that doesn't sound like a very clear advantage to me. most cameras are ok to handhold for short periods, or sporadically. for me (and i assume for a lot of others, but i'm just speaking for myself), doc and verité usually means i could be off the sticks all day. and a big dslr in the hands doesn't seem like a good choice. this is why i'm frequently dismayed when folks point to the c300 as a better doc camera, when it sounds like they're saying - without rigging, you can get away with it sometimes.
Click to expand...

Well that's kind of the point I think, without rigging - you can get away with shooting the C300. With the F3, you can't.
 
Will IS option be better (if any) to putting a camera steady on the shoulder... If your shot is shaky when F3 camera is on the shoulder, most likely it will be shaky with c300 handheld with IS... And, if you are on stick, I choose F3 with manual everything on the lens over plasticky EOS lenses with no Fstop ring on the lens, and no proper manual focus friction with no hard stops...
Click to expand...

Let's not forget the Canon CN-E primes...they are AWESOME lenses that are EF-mount only. If they were PL, I'd run to the purchase counter.

I have ET Body Armor on my F3 and can tell you that it's a VERY nice and tidy package now--gets rid of all that stupid Sony "packaging" around the camera. There are caveats though: no audio-monitor jack (headphones), loosing record button on dumb-side of camera, no tally light (who cares), no IF remote sensor, loosing button 6&7, and no cold-shoes (easy to remedy). You also need to be pretty comfortable with disassembling your camera to do it...not difficult, but requires quite some surgery!
 
LeavingTheCandy said:
Let's not forget the Canon CN-E primes...they are AWESOME lenses that are EF-mount only. If they were PL, I'd run to the purchase counter.

I have ET Body Armor on my F3 and can tell you that it's a VERY nice and tidy package now--gets rid of all that stupid Sony "packaging" around the camera. There are caveats though: no audio-monitor jack (headphones), loosing record button on dumb-side of camera, no tally light (who cares), no IF remote sensor, loosing button 6&7, and no cold-shoes (easy to remedy). You also need to be pretty comfortable with disassembling your camera to do it...not difficult, but requires quite some surgery!
Click to expand...

I am about to receive my kit tomorrow... Regarding the sound monitoring: I was told by 3ality and Alistar C. (who also did conversion of his f3) that it can be done by sound outputs on the bottom of two xlr plugs. No volume adjustments, but still possible... Did you try it?


All other "loses", I don't care about...
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top