F23: Public Enemies was shot with REC709?!

combatentropy said:
That's surprising, and I guess I would say that what also matters is the degree of compression. 10-bit 4:2:2 with 3:1 compression is going to be more gradeable than with 100:1. For high compression, even if there are no visible compression artifacts like blockiness, the camera has usually first processed the raw footage with strong noise reduction, and that oversmoothness and loss of detail may be what some people might object to when they push the levels around to a great degree. If you have any screenshots, before and after, to help me see what you're seeing, feel free to share them.
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To follow up, on the Arri Amira when switching from 12 bit 4:4:4:4 mode to 10 bit 4:2:2 mode, it has a little warning screen come on that says something along the lines of, "Be aware that switching to this mode [10 bit] can cause artifacting." I just about always shoot 12 bit 4:4:4:4 on the Amira. Handles Log-C great, super easy to grade with LUT applied automatically as metadata in post. C300 Mark II, I typically shoot a baked in rec 709 (Wide DR) flavor at 10 bit 4:2:2 as I find grading log to be problematic, nosier, etc.
 
helweg said:
I saw Public Enemies at the cinema when it came out.
Enjoyed the story, hated beyond words the images, if only because of that horrible 360 degree shutter.
At the time I thought they were mad for making that creative choice for a 1930s gangster film and couldn't believe no one was talking about it.

In my experience when comparing the tonality of all the different gammas on the F23, Slog has the smoothest and cleanest image with the least amount of banding or weirdness.
I wouldn't dream of shooting in any other gamma on that camera, but that's just me.
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It was not until I watched the behind the scenes on my blu ray copy that I saw they used 180 shutter for all day stuff. Many shots of the monitors and the F23 was in 180.. Couldnt believe it. Night stuff for sure was 360
 
Mike Krumlauf said:
They used EX1s inside the cars on Public... Speed Racer used the F23 for deep DOf and 4:4:4 for composition. Benjamin Button used the F23 in the modern hospital scenes only

As for crank.. it was a mix of the f900, f950 and canon xl2 if you can believe that. They shot some overcrank on 35mm as well. I love crank, the only image issue I have with it is they over sharpened it.
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Mike Krumlauf said:
I can understand an indie film at this time shooting 709 as it was more of a ***** to grade S Log on a budget back then and Color Correction techniques were not as "consumer friendly" as they are now.. only the few of us even knew what a LUT was in 2008 lol... but a tentpole Universal Studios picture with Michael Mann at the helm... was he just being complacent with what he thought looked good in his F900 days? I honestly feel like Collaterial is his best looking digital shot film. Miami Vice, while a semi decent film, looked like total trash.. video noise up the butt. I remember when they were all in town filming Public as I lived min away from some of the locations. The scene when Depp is in the theater and hes freaking out thinking someone will notice him after they put his picture on the screen is the Paramount Theater in Aurora, Illinois which was ten min from my house in Naperville at the time. I remember seeing them film a scene in downtown chicago and I was more excited to see the F23 on the stedicam than I was Depp... funny, now I own one lol.
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Public Enemy was a period piece. Even today we expect a period piece to look like it was shot on film. Also, part of us doesn’t believe something shot on a “handycam” is period accurate. Not that modern film would have been.

The whole notion of “i can’t believe a big budget movie would...” just shows there is a lot more to the psychology of appreciating visuals.
 
James0b57 said:
Public Enemy was a period piece. Even today we expect a period piece to look like it was shot on film. Also, part of us doesn’t believe something shot on a “handycam” is period accurate. Not that modern film would have been.

The whole notion of “i can’t believe a big budget movie would...” just shows there is a lot more to the psychology of appreciating visuals.
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There is something to be said about that, but in the end, as they say, “the proof is in the pudding”. It doesn’t matter what they shot on, who shot it or what the budget was, if it looks like s h i t, it looks like s h i t.
 
Eric Coughlin said:
To follow up, on the Arri Amira when switching from 12 bit 4:4:4:4 mode to 10 bit 4:2:2 mode, it has a little warning screen come on that says something along the lines of, "Be aware that switching to this mode [10 bit] can cause artifacting." I just about always shoot 12 bit 4:4:4:4 on the Amira. Handles Log-C great, super easy to grade with LUT applied automatically as metadata in post. C300 Mark II, I typically shoot a baked in rec 709 (Wide DR) flavor at 10 bit 4:2:2 as I find grading log to be problematic, nosier, etc.
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I don't know what to say...I shot something like 4 episodic series on Alexas using 422HQ, we never had any issues in the grade. Where we would have had issues shooting 709 is with day exteriors or interiors with windows where I needed to leverage log for the highlights. I see now you are comparing the Amira at 12 bit to the C300 at 10 bit--is perhaps the recording codec itself more of the issue there than the color space?
 
Mike Krumlauf said:
Charles, Did you ever shoot anything on the F23? I know you used the genesis and 35.
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If I did work with the F23, I can't remember doing so. Genesis in 2006, F35 in 2008, with some D20 and D21 stuff mixed throughout...first Alexa job was in 2010.

I shot a feature in 2005 on the F900 which was of course in 709. I remember on the first day switching off the shutter and seeing how much exposure I gained and thought "maybe that's the way to go"...then noted the motion blur and decided against it! Thankfully very little of the movie was shot in daylight, so we had enough room to grade to a pretty significant degree, considering. The opening shots of this trailer were additional photography and it turned out that the camera had been tweaked into a high-contrast look--I was struggling to see an image in the bright desert sun and thought it was the monitor. The perils of 709.

 
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combatentropy said:
Great camerawork and lighting! (Still looks like video. Sorry. Not your fault.)
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Of course. The extended depth of field doesn't help that. And there was something about the skintones with the F900 that never sat right. Some scenes looked better than others but I was happy enough with it at the time. It was filmed out and had a weeklong theatrical run--it held up pretty good projected on 35mm. The film grain softened the digital edge somewhat.
 
That trailer just goes to show how much of a quality jump the F23/35 was at the time. Charles, you guys were breaking new ground. Taking risks and showing us the way. Thanks for sharing.
 
CharlesPapert said:
If I did work with the F23, I can't remember doing so. Genesis in 2006, F35 in 2008, with some D20 and D21 stuff mixed throughout...first Alexa job was in 2010.

I shot a feature in 2005 on the F900 which was of course in 709. I remember on the first day switching off the shutter and seeing how much exposure I gained and thought "maybe that's the way to go"...then noted the motion blur and decided against it! Thankfully very little of the movie was shot in daylight, so we had enough room to grade to a pretty significant degree, considering. The opening shots of this trailer were additional photography and it turned out that the camera had been tweaked into a high-contrast look--I was struggling to see an image in the bright desert sun and thought it was the monitor. The perils of 709.

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Charles, I actually remember you posting on here around the time you were shooting this. It was a picture of you filming with the big mattebox and someone thought you were shooting on a DVX haha.
 
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