external recorder options (balanced xlr line level in)

T

themagickite

Well-known member
just wondering what equipment is out there that can pull this off. I'm thinking that the quality of the recorder doesn't have to be very high (read expensive) if using a good mixer like 302, but to get the most out of the combo, a balanced line level connection would be desirable.

i know the original h4 has a line in over XLR, but i've heard the new version doesn't

what else is out there? the tascam dr100 only states mic over xlr, do you bypass the internal pre-amps by setting the gain at minimum?
 
the h-4n has line level input if you use pl jack in xlr/pl combo plug
you will need to make about 20 db attenuation from your max line level to be in match with line level for zoom ( menu option on 302).
not zoom or tascam by pass their preamp stages , not even the sound devices , :-)
 
olgak said:
t
not zoom or tascam by pass their preamp stages , not even the sound devices , :-)
Click to expand...

Are you saying that SD722 for example does not bypass the mic-pres when the input is set to line and the whole gain adjustment is disabled?

How about digital inputs? Does SD perform DAC, run the signal through mic-pres just for the heck of it, then ADC again?

Ha-ha.
 
I run an unbalanced line-in to my DR-100 from the TA3 tape out and it works fine. The DR-100 has a 1/8 line in option, though I can't say if it bypasses the pres....probably just turns them down. SD makes a cable specifically for this. No doubt you can find more expensive options, but putting the 302 in front of the DR-100 makes a huge improvement do the the huge gain boost, limiters etc.

To some extent you are correct about a good mixer and inexpensive recorder, but at around $1500 for the package, you might look at other options. In my case, I wanted a mixer to feed my cams also, so it made sense. In retrospect, I wish the 552 had been on the market, I would have ponied up the extra for that for a bit more $$.

Grant
 
themagickite said:
I'm thinking that the quality of the recorder doesn't have to be very high (read expensive) if using a good mixer like 302
Click to expand...

Wrong - to get the quality the recorder should be of equally high quality as you are still going through an analogue stage and ADC.

The ony case where you can get away is when you are using a recorder as a "bit bucket". IE: doing the A/D conversion externally and only using the recorder to store the digits.
 
You might check out the Marantz PMD661. A nice quality recorder with XLR line in. I'm selling one in the marketplace now.
 
John Willett said:
Wrong - to get the quality the recorder should be of equally high quality as you are still going through an analogue stage and ADC.

The ony case where you can get away is when you are using a recorder as a "bit bucket". IE: doing the A/D conversion externally and only using the recorder to store the digits.
Click to expand...

John, You are correct but I think some perspective should be added which is "compared to what".

No doubt a high end recorder will sound better than any DR-100 or Zoom something. Will a DR-100 sound better with a 302 than without; yes. Will a DR-100 with a 302 sound better than a typical good quality handy cam like a Panasonic or Sony something; for sure. The OP asked about inexpensive recorders like the Zoom and Tascam.

Grant
 
I own a SD 302, a SD 702 and a Tascam DR-07, and I own a variety of mics, from decent quality up to top-notch, including a Schoeps Colette CMC641. I am not an audio professional, but I am familiar with what a high quality mic with a quiet pre-amp sounds like. Now, the capabilities of a SD 702 blows away what a Tascam DR-07 can do, as it should at that price point. On the other hand, quality mics connected to the SD 302, with proper levels, feeding into the 1/8" line in jack on the DR-07, sound very clean with very low noise levels, recorded to the DR-07. Of course the 302 is doing the amplification, limiting, etc., and the DR-07 is simply taking the analog in and recording it, without messing it up. I am selling my 702, as I don't need its incredible capabilities. I can live with the 1/8" connection from the 302 to the DR-07 for my purposes, but if I had to count on quality sound recording to make a living, then I would keep the 702. So, depending on your needs, a good mic with a good mixer into a cheap flash memory recorder can do a decent job, as long as you realize the limitations. A mic directly connected to the DR-07 will not make a quality recording, as the DR-07's mic pre-amps are basic consumer level quality. Also, the recorded sound from the DR-07's built-in mics, especially with the input level set at mid or high, is somewhat noisy, and could not be used for serious work. (On the 302 to DR-07 connection, I have use an XLR to 1/8" impedance matching cable, a Beachtek XLR in to 1/8" out device, and I have also used the tape level TA3 to stereo 1/8" out cable with the 302, all with good results.)
 
The quality of in-camera audio is often underestimated. Using SD302 as a front end I have measured dynamic ranges of over 92 dB in Canon XH-A1 and Panasonic DVX100 fed to line-in. Who needs more that that? Great sounding movies were made before digital era with much worse gear in that respect. Those über-professional tape Nagras struggled to achieve 65 dB S/N ratios, still they were the best for 30 years or so. I doubt anyone could really and readily tell from a DVD or movie that this was not recorded with SD722 but with a good prosumer cam with SD302.
 
Petrus,

I agree with you and do record dialogue to cam as often as possible. And when I add the 302 in front it is respectable. I haven't done any measurements, but IMHO a 302 and DR-100 sounds better than a 302 in front of a HPX170. Maybe not enough to fret over, but enough to notice.

Grant
 
I prefer the Tascam DR-680 to the SD, a small difference, however. The 680 is a a lot of good sound in a small box for a reasonable price. To my ear, the Tascam is slightly more transparent. It really depends on the mic-box synchronicity. The Tascam does a good job on ribbon mics as well, surprisingly. I suspect that whatever advantage is gained is lost in the next converter round on a sort of year to year turnover--the game has changed in that respect. Having the option to customize the opamp stage to taste is a huge plus as well for the Tascam: you take take the essential transparency of the converters (which is quite stunning) and then tweak the stages supporting it for the sound you like, and all at a very reasonable price for the mods.
 
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