GH5 External GH5 recording limitations?

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filmguy123

Veteran
When outputting via HDMI to external recording can you record all modes in full 10-bit 4:2:2 to ProRes?

I.e. 4K 60p 10 bit 4:2:2 vlog, and 180fps 10 bit 4:2:2 vlog at 400-800mbps in ProRes? So the 180 fps would look as good as 24p without the degredarion occurring when cramming it into the limited bitrate?

What's the absolute smallest external recorder available to do this with? Screeen doesn't matter I would prefer to lock the cable into the camera and keep the recorder in a backpack or belt pouch (or in the hands of an assistant)
 
filmguy123 said:
So the 180 fps would look as good as 24p without the degredarion occurring when cramming it into the limited bitrate?
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I would want to test that first before jumping into conclusions.

Don't get me wrong I really like it that the GH5 has a 180fps option but the quality is not that great.
Granted this is partly due to the bitrate limitations but I suspect other shortcuts were made as well.
Immediately noticeable is lots of moire.
 
filmguy123 said:
So the 180 fps would look as good as 24p without the degredarion occurring when cramming it into the limited bitrate?
Click to expand...

I think it's more than the bitrate, as the camera's processing power limits how much internal image clean-up it can do, so things like moire can creep into the high-speed internal recording, which you would not see at 30 fps. Using an external recorder appears to free up the camera's CPU a bit when it doesn't have to do the encoding work, so it's possible the externally recorded image would be cleaner.
 
I see.

But, the GH5 will support recording 180fps at 10 bit 4:2:2 to an external recorder that supports this?

What's the absolute smallest external recorder available to do this with? Screeen doesn't matter I would prefer to lock the cable into the camera and keep the recorder in a backpack or belt pouch (or in the hands of an assistant)
 
filmguy123 said:
Ithe GH5 will support recording 180fps at 10 bit 4:2:2 to an external recorder that supports this?
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The Atomos Ninja Inferno is the best match for the GH5, and costs about $800 US.

This recorder supports 4K 10-bit recording up to 60 fps, and 1080p recording up to 120 fps. ( no bit-depth is specified for 1080p recording )
 
Any thoughts on why no manufacturer has something like a Ninja Star v2, which can basically do what the inferno does but drops the screen and shrinks the form factor? I'd love something like this pocket sized. The inferno is too big. But an updated star that could handle 4k 60p / FHD 240p seems overdue...

I guess I could stick the inferno in a bag on my back or hip but still.
 
filmguy123 said:
Any thoughts on why no manufacturer has something like a Ninja Star v2, which can basically do what the inferno does but drops the screen and shrinks the form factor? I'd love something like this pocket sized. The inferno is too big. But an updated star that could handle 4k 60p / FHD 240p seems overdue...

I guess I could stick the inferno in a bag on my back or hip but still.
Click to expand...
You would not even need a screen, you would just need a (remote) start and stop button, it would be a great product to do run and gun GH5 4k@60p recordings!
 
filmguy123 said:
Any thoughts on why no manufacturer has something like a Ninja Star v2, which can basically do what the inferno does but drops the screen and shrinks the form factor? I'd love something like this pocket sized. The inferno is too big. But an updated star that could handle 4k 60p / FHD 240p seems overdue...

I guess I could stick the inferno in a bag on my back or hip but still.
Click to expand...

I think because the Ninja Star was kind of a flop and unrealistic since it required faster CF cards. BMD also made a screen less HD recorder that didn't sell very well either. Its almost impossible finding any decent reviews on either product.

Its a big risk for companies to make a 4k version because a lot of people also really want the screen. A Flame is about so much more than just the recording and having a 10bit 7" display with scopes is a pretty big deal to a lot of people. If you are going to bother hauling around the extra hunk of gear and weight you might as well get 10x the functionality out of it. There are a lot of professional shooters who have used 7" monitors for years before they used them for recording. Its a realistic market and some people buy the Flame to just use as a great monitor. I know some people that use the Flame as grading monitor in the field from a laptop.

Even though the GH5 has most of the tools built in there is still a significant advantage to a 1920x1080 7" 10bit display. False color is almost a must these days for precise expose and lighting control. I doubt the price difference for a screen less Inferno would really be worth the cost savings. $1,000 is already pretty darn cheap for what you get.
 
Good points Thomas, and yes that is a bummer if the demand isn't strong enough. I'd spend the same $1000 for a screen-less version of the Inferno, just for the utility of a super small/lightweight recorder. But I'm guessing that may not be a huge portion of the market.

It's too bad, because I think the market would be more ready for it today. In body LCDs and EVFs have improved in recent years, and todays tech should allow recording direct to a v90 SDXC card in a Ninja Star v2. The BMD and Ninja star were a bit limited with recording formats and options to begin with, so I can't help but wonder how much better an updated product might go over in 2017/2018.
 
filmguy123 said:
It's too bad, because I think the market would be more ready for it today. In body LCDs and EVFs have improved in recent years, and todays tech should allow recording direct to a v90 SDXC card in a Ninja Star v2.
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I agree that would be a great product.
 
I too really wanted a Ninja Star v2 that was 4k but in the end I gave up on the concept since it is kind of limiting. No extra benefits in terms of scopes and resolution and you can't playback clips for clients or to review for yourself. You really are more or less recording blind. The Ninja Star really had a limited usefulness and even though it is lighter I personally found that to not be a very big deal. It is the act of figuring how how/where to attach and external recorder and dealign with the HDMI cable and making sure trigger recording is working from the camera that is the biggest annoyance. Once you are ok with lugging around that parasite attached to the typically compact camera a little extra size and weight are not that much of a big deal.

I bought a 5" Ninja Blade for that exact reason because it was small and light and can last on a small battery for many hours. I now regret that decision and wish I would have just bought a 7" Flame. The size and weight I saved are not really worth it in the end and that 5" screen is a pain to focus with.
 
filmguy123 said:
I see.

But, the GH5 will support recording 180fps at 10 bit 4:2:2 to an external recorder that supports this?

What's the absolute smallest external recorder available to do this with? Screeen doesn't matter I would prefer to lock the cable into the camera and keep the recorder in a backpack or belt pouch (or in the hands of an assistant)
Click to expand...

Whatever recorder you decide on, I would get the specs you need directly confirmed by the manufacturer...they record easily in Prores but can bottleneck at higher frame/bit rates...also, in the case of the Shogun (im sure the flame is the same) they need a lot of battery power...and the chargers Atomos sends out with their batteries are awful....great monitors, but you seem not to care about that....so budget for that size and weight too.
 
Does the GH5 actually pump out 120fps via HDMI? The GH4 was limited to HD 60p via HDMI. While there are some external recorders that can record 120fps HD I have not seen very many cameras that actually send that via HDMI. When you shoot VFR on the GH5 I don't think it pumps out a realtime 120fps that is recorded as a 120fps video, does it? On my GH4 when I use an external recorder and set the VFR to 96fps the live output to the Ninja Blade is just a 24p stream. I don't think VFR works via HDMI unless that changed on the GH5. How would it though since VFR is activated once the camera hits record. An external recorder can't activate that on the camera.
 
I just tried recording VFR on my GH4 and even then the GH4 LCD and the Blade are still showing the realtime 24p output. Based on this it is absolutely impossible to record VFR externally. The best you can do is record HD 60p or 4k 60p and slow it down further in post if you want 10bit and higher quality. VFR is limited to internal only.

I wonder what the heck external recorders support 120fps for if nothing out there can actually do 120fps HD via HDMI?
 
ohhhh... THAT is what I was mainly asking, thanks Thomas. Wanted to confirm if the GH5 would do it. That sucks! So only 60p/50p timebase modes external, no VFR support, and no support for the higher FPS like 120/180? Bummer :/
 
Thomas Smet said:
Does the GH5 actually pump out 120fps via HDMI? The GH4 was limited to HD 60p via HDMI. While there are some external recorders that can record 120fps HD I have not seen very many cameras that actually send that via HDMI. When you shoot VFR on the GH5 I don't think it pumps out a realtime 120fps that is recorded as a 120fps video, does it? On my GH4 when I use an external recorder and set the VFR to 96fps the live output to the Ninja Blade is just a 24p stream. I don't think VFR works via HDMI unless that changed on the GH5. How would it though since VFR is activated once the camera hits record. An external recorder can't activate that on the camera.
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My plan for the GH5 slow motion is to simply record 4K 60P and double in post for when I need 120P...at least that's what I'll test first...I doubt that I'll ever use 180P...I think you're right about the HDMI not outputting that high a frame rate to an external recorder!...either way, before buying anything, I would get it directly from the horses mouth.
 
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