Express Pro HD and DVCPRO-HD?

Would be nice to hear if this is correct...
I have waited patiently for Avid on the MAC and had hoped with the HVX release we would have been in sync as far as the PC/MAC releases. While Avid rewrites the MAC code for later release, we might be swimming upstream.

But Michael will know... (fingers crossed, knocking on wood, rubbing the buddha...)
 
Hmmm... he is kind of all over the place... there is some correct stuff, and some not. Some of it is inaccurate (non avid related). I have taken the liberty of copy/pasting his reply and adding [mep] for my answers:

For PC, you can use Avid Xpress Pro HD to cut DVCPRO-HD footage, but only at a select few frame rates.

[mep] There are two project types for capture directly over FireWire: 720p.23.976 and 720p.59.94

Xpress Pro HD does not support 1080p24 or have provisions for doing the pulldown either. it only cuts 1080i59.97 & 1080i50. If you want to cut 1080p24 footage from the HVX200 then you have to capture it with the $80k high priced Avid Adrenaline only. After you do that, you can finally bring into Xpress Pro HD and cut it.

[mep] This is correct a far as capture is concerned, but once captured, it will edit 1080p/23.976 or 1080p/24 at DNxHD resolutions (DNxHD 145 which becomes 115 at 24fps). Xpress Pro does not have a HD-SDI connection.

Additionally it will not support any of the variable frame rates for 720p other then 24 and 60.

[mep] If capturing over FireWire or HD-SDi this is correct.

This is good for the Varicam because it can shoot 720p24 or 720p23.976(dropframe).

[mep] There is no drop frame timecode when shooting 23.976. That is a frame rate, not a timecode format. It is only under rare conditions that HD should be shot at true 24fps rates; when shooting at the same time with film at 24fps, or for PAL countries.

I am not sure if the HVX can shoot anything other then 720p23.976, so if you're 720p24 footage has dropdown in it(23.976) then it can't be captured with Avid Xpress Pro either.

[mep] This is backwards. Xpress Pro captures 720p/23.976 not true 24.000fps because of the audio sample rate issue needed in hardware. VFR is not an issue on the HVX200 since it resolves all of it to 23.976 to the card. It is only on tape based format where VFR is only supported for 23.976 or 59.94. If for some reason "dropdown" means pulldown, then yes. Xpress Pro extracts the 22.976 frames from the 59.94 frame format of the tape.

It must also be captured with Avid Adrenaline first and then finally brought over to Xpress Pro HD. This is all what I was told when investigating if I should switch from Vegas to Avid.

[mep] If doing 1080, this is true. But I am still doing tests as to whether the 1080 within the same 100MB/s format looks better than shooting 720p and letting the Avid uprez. Shooting at 720 gives you the VFR as well as more time on the P2 card.

I suppose this is why nobody cuts in HDCAM or HDV or DVCPRO-HD using low cost NLE's. It's always cut in a proxy file. (usually DV) Ofcourse, if you have a high price NLE like Avid Adrenaline or Nitris ($80,000 & $110,000 repectively) then you just cut the stuff uncompressed and don't worry about anything. *smile*

[mep] There are several productions editing native 720p and HD as DNxHD. The decision is based on storage and performance.

Either way, PC owners are gonna have some serious troubles handling native DVCPRO-HD footage until these companies pan out the issues. In the mean time, make a DV proxy or cut it uncompressed if you have the $$$.

[mep] Native 720p/23.976 over FIreWire or via files on the HNX200 is supported now with Xpress Pro 5.2. My tests have been going well. The native DVCPRO codec is not as optimized for post as is DNxHD so you will need a CPU with some power. Don't expect all notebooks to do this. I have been using the HVX200 and Xpress Pro for several weeks and so far, so good.


Michael
 
I forgot to add that DVfilmmaker has made a 1080p/23.976 with pulldown to native 1080p/23.976 files. I am testing this with the Avid now to see if this works. We are planning on direct pulldown removal from 1080 in the future.

Michael
 
The only way I know would be with the DVFilmmaker as mentioned but still needs to be tested. The other way is to do a pulldown removal in After Effects (NORMAL pulldown) and render out as DNxHD using the Avid codec. This would be done for the 23.976 frame rate.
 
Is this a trial version of DV Filmmaker? The squares look like their copy protection. Ad far as Mac, I made no assumptions. NORMAL pulldown removal is available on Mac and PC for After Effects (as is DVFilmmaker). The only OS limitation is if rendering to DNxHD via QT Ref, the codecs only exist on PC.

Michael
 
SalaTar said:
"Is this a trial version of DV Filmmaker? "

yeah its the latest Beta demo, seems it hates some files
Click to expand...


True, it crashed on every HVX file I tried so far.


Steve
 
Sounds good Sal, I'm just hoping for the best you know, I mean afterall, we did spend ALOT of money on Avid!:happy:
 
I'm giving up with AVID HD !
This is not a flame on AVID. I'm just fed up with not having
decent support for HD.


I want to be able to preview my HD in HD without exporting !

I don't care if AVID is an industry standard. Maybe for SD, definately not for DVCPRO-HD.
 
If I am not mistaken, it sounds like 720p with variable frame rates is not going to work at this time either (I'am on a mac). So to get it straight, on a mac DVCPro 50 will work, but not any HD flavors. Am I right? (not to 4.8.2 yet, projects coming up in Feb. might switch to HVX and 720p if I can get a camera!).

Thanks for the help
FD
 
Wait a minute - i am confused - are we only talking about capture or about import?

Can we import variable framerates at 720P?? - i would think so since it still plays them at a 24 frame timebase

Can we IMPORT 1080 24P from an MXF file? - or there is simply no way to do it will out spending a lot of money?
 
I'll add my question to smelni's ...


Has anyone imported a 1080p into the MXF, and cut it on Avid in a 1080p timeline, without transcoding to DNxHD?
And if so how did it go? Was it smooth, no frame freezes etc...? Now we are in real world scenarios, it'd be interesting to have some dvxusers suss it out. :beer:

Cheers.
 
SalaTar said:
the MXF files on the p2 card (0002J3.MXF and 0003GF.MXF) just get copied to <drive>Avid MediaFiles\MXF\1
I opened a standard 1080i project and open <tool> media tool

drag 0002J3 and 0003GF to the bin (no import needed)
right click export as Qtime referance file (pick a place)
close project
Open a 1080p 23.97 project
import referance file

comes in as a DNxHD file
now the dv50 files you got me on that one
Click to expand...
Sala, how do you open the 1080p timeline without transcoding to DNxHD?
 
D_and_G said:
Sala, how do you open the 1080p timeline without transcoding to DNxHD?
Click to expand...
the MXF files on the p2 card (0002J3.MXF and 0003GF.MXF) just get copied to <drive>Avid MediaFiles\MXF\1
I opened a standard 1080i project and open <tool> media tool

drag 0002J3 and 0003GF to the bin (no import needed)
right click export as Qtime referance file (pick a place)
close project
Open a 1080p 23.97 project
import referance file

comes in as a DNxHD file
now the dv50 files you got me on that one
 
Of course it's not transcoded. The Avid MediaFiles folder contains the Already transcoded files Avid uses, so if we're copying the files there it means there is no further transcoding..
 
Is it true that editing 1080i, (not in DNxHD) Avid only performs at around 4-5 frames a second, in real time?

I've read a couple users comments to this effect. I was wondering what other users experience here is with this resolution.

Cheers.
 
DNxHD is optimized for post prodcution so Avid is able to get more streams out of it, DVCPRO 100 on a dual core CPU performs fine in real time. Older notebooks with single core may drop frames.

Michael
 
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