EX1 footage, etc.

P

PhilaDvXphia

Member
Without mentioning any names, some of the footage that is posted under the EX1 footage section has me wondering if this camera is as good as I thought it was. What puzzles me even more is that people are commenting and acting like some of it actually looks good. Sure, Phillip Bloom's work looks amazing.

My question is this...why don't we see footage of this caliber (Phillip Bloom) from other shooters?? Did you see some of the others that are posting? First of all, that rolling shutter problem is horrible. It looks absolutely terrible. Unacceptable in my mind. The other problem that I see is that the footage isn't crisp and has a very video-ish look to it. If I'm wrong here, please post some of your footage that you feel looks great. I'd love to still buy this camera. To be honest though, the rolling shutter problem is very troublesome to me.

I also wish that others would post some footage that was shot ONLY WITH THE STOCK LENS.

I was completely convinced that I was buying the EX1. I was so excited. Now I'm thinking that I don't want the HVX or the EX1. Right now, I'm leaning toward waiting until April to see what's coming out next.
 
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You are wrong.

And I think Phil Bloom will take exception to your comment.

I agree that it would be nice to see less DoF box work. The stock lens is truly amazing.

BTW - the EX1 is a video camera.
 
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PhilaDvXphia said:
Without mentioning any names, some of the footage that is posted under the EX1 footage section has me wondering if this camera is as good as I thought it was. What puzzles me even more is that people are commenting and acting like some of it actually looks good. Sure, Phillip Bloom's work looks amazing - but he gets paid by Sony...He speaks for Sony, whatever...

My question is this...why don't we see footage of this caliber (Phillip Bloom) from other shooters?? Did you see some of the others that are posting? First of all, that rolling shutter problem is horrible. It looks absolutely terrible. Unacceptable in my mind. The other problem that I see is that the footage isn't crisp and has a very video-ish look to it. If I'm wrong here, please post some of your footage that you feel looks great. I'd love to still buy this camera. To be honest though, the rolling shutter problem is very troublesome to me.

I also wish that others would post some footage that was shot ONLY WITH THE STOCK LENS.

I was completely convinced that I was buying the EX1. I was so excited. Now I'm thinking that I don't want the HVX or the EX1. Right now, I'm leaning toward waiting until April to see what's coming out next.
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Dude,

Kind of a compliment, but also a statement that is slander. I get paid by Sony? For what, to shoot footage and post it on forums? Yeah, they said if I do it they will give me an F23, F900R, a genesis and a new PSP.

For the past 3 days i HAVE been paid by Sony, to answer questions to punters looking at the EX1. They paid me my daily rate and it was cool, especially meeting other forum members. Other than that Sony have paid me zip, Letus have paid me zip. I buy all my gear full price. I post my footage on my website so i can show what the cameras can do and what I can do. So hopefully I can get more work from it. But to say I even speak for Sony is nonsense. I speak for what I like and what I use. Yes most of my cameras are Sony cameras. But I also own a JVCHD 201 that I used for 10 months with the Brevis. I did loads of work with it and loved it. I have an HV20, if you go on to my web site there is a little test short I shot with it and the letus mini. it craps all over my ex1 with regards to edge to edge sharpness. That is one stunning little camera and that's a Canon. I also used the HVX and Brevis for a doco series (homeless portraits was part of it). Now I have moved on to the EX1. Just because I have had more success from that combo doesn't make me biased or in anyone's pocket. It makes me an advocate of the equipment and there is nothing wrong with that. Give me a Red and I will say thanks very much and probably not touch my Letus or EX1 again. Although if Jim Jannard gave me one (Jim, are you there Jim?) would that compromise my independence?

I was asked by a very nice man who runs a very nice company which makes very nice adaptors to become his sponsored shooter. If he is reading this I would be very grateful if he would reiterate what I am saying here now. I said thanks very much, the offer of free gear for life is a fantastic offer but by doing that I am compromise what makes my word on the forums so valuable. I am independent. I will buy lots of different stuff out there and tell people what I think of it. So I said I will still buy your adaptors and make my money back from the cost of them by using them for paid jobs. He agreed that it made sense. So when you hear from me that I like something you will know that i like it for ALL the right reasons.

I understand that quite a lot of people have bought ex1s based on my footage (many people email me to tell me so), that's great. I am glad it is inspiring people to go out there and create! We are living in an amazing time where tools to create quite awesome footage are available to most people, not just the wealthy broadcasters or production companies.

It's a shame, yesterday a thread was started up accusing me of something very similar. All I am trying to do is share. I would be grateful if the moderators do not delete this thread like the did with the one yesterday. This sort of rubbish needs to be nipped in the bud and if people can read what I have written here hopefully they can stop questioning my motives which are very simple. To share with you guys and TO GET ME LOTS AND LOTS OF NICE WORK!!
 
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Yeah, really smart thread here. Without mentioning any names, let me mention some names.

Apologies to Philip on behalf of many. Thanks for posting what you have posted, and keep sharing your thoughts on the EX1, even if they're hard for some of us HVX'ers (like myself) to hear.

--SM
 
If I'm wrong here, please post some of your footage that you feel looks great. I'd love to still buy this camera. To be honest though, the rolling shutter problem is very troublesome to me.

I also wish that others would post some footage that was shot ONLY WITH THE STOCK LENS.
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I doubt you can even see the rolling shutter issue in normal photography.


I think this looks nice and was shot with the stock lens (by someone other than Phil Bloom):

http://www.8112studios.com/nyc.mov
 
Also if you go to my website and click on Religion EX1. A lot of that was shot clean on the EX1.

The obsession with rolling shutter is quite odd. I have never had any problems. To be honest I am more likely to have vertical smear issues with ccds than I would rolling shutter issues on cmos.

If you asked me if i would prefer ccd or cmos in my ex1 i would say cmos. That is purely my preference and I am sure for others their priorities lie in different areas.

I keep on planning on doing a short just using the stock lens. But I have gotten so busy recently that I am absolutely knackered. But get the sharpness setting down a few notches, play around with the gamma and some other bits and you will get some cracking footage out of it. Saying that I shot a wedding video for a good friend in Spain last summer using the JVC HD 201 with no adaptor and the picture blew me away. Incredibly filmic, more so than the EX1 clean. Although it was quite a noisy image and rubbish in low light!
 
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Hey Philip, your work is excellent and it reflects more of you than it does an particular camera. People get caught up in the camera and lose focus of what's really important, creating good images by knowing lighting, composition, pointing the camera at interesting or pretty things, etc. I'm a photographer going into high-def video production. I know it doesn't matter all that much if someone shoots Canon or Nikon or Olympus, it's all about creating desirable images. I'm starting my hd studio from scratch so I have absolutely no preconceived bias over which hd camcorder, or software, or hardware to shoot and edit with. I'm going with an Apple Mac Pro and Final Cut Studio. I still haven't decided on an Aja or Blackmagic capture card. Monitoring I'm going with a JVC monitor. I was all ready to get a Panny HVX200 camera when this Sony EX1 came out. I'm like you... I could care less who makes what, we just want to use tools we feel will best realize our visions. If I shoot with a Canon still camera and if Canon says, "we like your stuff, could we license your images to use in our marketing", that doesn't mean I'm bought-out by Canon and I'm now biased against Nikon. Ha! You create nice footage with the Sony (I saw your site), but you also created nice stuff with other cameras too, like the Canon HV20, and I think you shot some with a Panny HVX200 somewhere along the line. Going high-profile like you're doing, which is very rewarding for guys like me who are making choices on a camera (but realizing it's not the camera in and of itself), you're gonna get high-fives and you're gonna take critical hits. Just know that the vast majority of us do not think you're "bought out" by Sony simply because they approached you after-the-fact and they paid you for your usual consulting services. I'm buying the Sony EX1, not just because of your wonderful footage, but because of my own thorough research looking at camera specs. If Panny comes out with a higher resolution HV200 in the next few days, I may go with them, but as of now it's hands down Sony EX1 for me.

I do have one question though... I noticed every now and then in some of your footage there are blown-out highlites. Sometimes this is an artistic preference, sometimes it's from too much range of light within a scene. I will be creating wilderness adventure footage and nature footage and often using GND filters to help control light. From your experience, do you feel the EX1 handles brights reasonably well? Are some of the blown highlites in your footage exaggerated from the software applications to get that "film" look? Just curious. Thanks again for sharing your work so openly.
 
Philip, sorry you're getting hit with this, heaven knows I've had my share. I deleted the last thread, and I'll delete this one too if you want, or if you want your rebuttal to stand then I'll leave it here, up to you.

We don't take kindly to accusations here on the forum, folks.

Secondly, why aren't we seeing that much great footage from the EX1? Perhaps because, as SteveT says, it's only been released a little while ago. And there was a recall on it, which significantly slowed down delivery, so not that many shooters have one. And of those that do, how many shooters are of the caliber of Philip Bloom?

There are probably 40,000 or 50,000 HVXs out there, but how frequently do we see eye-droppingly-gorgeous footage from them? Pretty much every time that Kevin Railsback picks one up, obviously... but when's the last time he took the trouble to post?

The point is: all these tools are capable of stunning results, and the difference is the shooter, not the camera. As more brilliant shooters pick up these cameras, we'll see more brilliant footage from them.

(and then, factor in that of the subset of shooters who are brilliant shooters, how many of them are forum members? And of that subset, how many of those brilliant shooters who are forum members, will go through the trouble of posting footage? And, of that tiny subset of a subset of a subset, how many of THEM want to put up with being called a shill?) Just be glad that people take the time to share their work; that's one of the principal things this forum is about.
 
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Matthew. No need to get smart or talk down to people: 'BTW - The Ex1 is a video camera.'

It's definitely a compliment Phillip. If it wasn't for what I've seen of your work, I wouldn't even be considering the EX1.

BUT...When you get paid by a company, your credibility is going to get questioned. It's as simple as that. You have to understand that when you see all these people posting their work and nothing looks nearly as good as yours, it makes perfect sense to question things. You'd have to be an idiot not to. And I do realize that some are just more talented than others.

And by the way, I'm not slandering you. Slander is spoken. It would be libel (written). And nothing I wrote came even close to amounting to libel. All I did was make some legitimate observations.

You do a fantastic job with your EX. I'm glad that you're happy with the EX1 and that you aren't in anyone's pocket. Keep up the great work.

But I still would like to see more than just a few people posting great looking footage from this camera before I go out and buy it.
 
Well, I wouldnt consider anyone hired by Sony or Pannie to be completley impartial - especially when posting a stream of almost promotional style clips that play on the strengths and ignores areas of specific interest (as for example - identified weaknesses.) But don't folk do this for loads of new cams, and IF you were offered mulah to work for panny or sony etc, who wouldn't! I would!

Nobody is completely impartial anyway - important to bear that in mind! The real testimony will be in the quality of the films produced from it - but again is it not the quality of the filmmaker that has by far the greatest effect.

Some will prefer the res, others will prefer the colour space of the hvx, and so on and so on. Its inevitable that the aggressive marketing push and the egos of new buyers (of any cams) will make insane -reassuring and hyped up claims that naturally agitate other cam operators (and not those who rise above it - lol i dont include myself all the time within that enlightened lot!)

Ive seen crap looking stuff on the EX, ive seen crap looking stuff on the HVX, ive seen great films shot on the hvx, ive still to see great films (only because of the time of its release and NOT cos of the cam) from the EX. I don't doubt i will...

So why does this matter?
 
Cheers Barry, let's leave it. Would like my rebuttal to stand.

I think it could be a useful thread for people to read. Like Buck has just said, just because you are raving about a product or even actually being used by them for promotional purposes doesn't mean a thing.

I will always go with what I think is the best tool for me at that current time. If Panny bring out an HVX300 that is better than the EX1 I will switch straight away!

I am fortunate enough to have had the chance to use most cameras out there and right now I have a favourite and if anybody who was at the forum the past few days and spoke to me will back me up when I say I was brutally honest about the EX1, pointing out it's flaws as well as what I loved about it, and to some people saying honestly I think you will be better off with a different camera. I had to wear a Sony badge but the first thing I said to everyone was I am a freelance DoP hired by Sony as I own and operate an EX1 and they wanted me to be here answer questions.

I wouldn't have take the gig if I didn't believe i what I was saying.
 
Jeez lets just flame it more bloom lol, do you know theres people here that might say 'hey if they release an EX2 with global shutter and 4.2.2 colour space then maybe ill get it till then i'll stick with the hvx200'

These statements only fuel replies and replies and groooan
 
My question is this...why don't we see footage of this caliber (Phillip Bloom) from other shooters??

There's a big difference between camera specs and talent, as I'm sure you're aware. You could have some garage band with the best equipment in the world and they might still sound like crap, and give the Eagles some battered acoustic guitars and they will create magic. If you give Greg Brady and Ansel Adams the same high-end camera, are you gonna expect the same results? I've seen some stunning EX1 footage and some crappy footage. I don't judge the camera itself (no matter which camera or manufcaturer) based on just the footage I see posted online (although I do check out as much as I can, it helps). If you're a good videographer, you can make this camera sing (but you could on pretty much any other camera too). If you need high-def specs, the EX1 certainly has the specs. If you need CCD attributes more than CMOS attributes, then that's a whole nuther thing. I'll be shooting wilderness stuff and I want the highest quality in a backpackable camcorder I can get, and the Sony EX1 stands out spec wise as the camcorder of my choice. What I end up doing with it won't be the praise or fault of the camcorder, it will be what I can create. I know I could do well with the HVX200 too, but the specs alone would limit some of my marketing choices. But you have to realize the person behind the camera has much more to do with the results than the camera itself.
 
PhilaDvXphia said:
Matthew. No need to get smart or talk down to people: 'BTW - The Ex1 is a video camera.'

It's definitely a compliment Phillip. If it wasn't for what I've seen of your work, I wouldn't even be considering the EX1.

BUT...When you get paid by a company, your credibility is going to get questioned. It's as simple as that. You have to understand that when you see all these people posting their work and nothing looks nearly as good as yours, it makes perfect sense to question things. You'd have to be an idiot not to. And I do realize that some are just more talented than others.

And by the way, I'm not slandering you. Slander is spoken. It would be libel (written). And nothing I wrote came even close to amounting to libel. All I did was make some legitimate observations.

You do a fantastic job with your EX. I'm glad that you're happy with the EX1 and that you aren't in anyone's pocket. Keep up the great work.

But I still would like to see more than just a few people posting great looking footage from this camera before I go out and buy it.
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Your post basically implied that I am on the payroll of Sony promoting this camera. Using the term "gets paid by Sony" implies that. I have been paid by sony for three whole days!

With regards to the previous comment about me just shooting stuff that ignores the cameras weaknesses, am sorry but I have to disagree. That again implies that this is a conscious decision. Please look at all my other shorts, using the HVX, JVC, DSR 450, F350. This is my style! Simple as that! I like making shorts that are beautiful and like coffee table books on film (video) I enjoy it, it relaxes me and gives me enormous pleasure!

If Sony were to offer me money would I take it? I doubt it very much and if I did I would have to make it VERY clear to everyone on my posts that I am sponsored. I love being on these forums, made lots of friends and it's a great place to learn. But I can't imagine I would get anywhere near the amount of satisfaction as I do now if I was no longer just a independent user.
 
Buck is spot on - its not the camera at all. I have a funny feeling mr. bloom (and quite a few others here) could take a cheap webcam and make it look good. Put him behind a good camera and guess what it looks even better.

PhilaDVXuser- If you are worrying that much about which camera you use you have other problems. Get the one that works for your budget and workflow and go shoot something.
 
Philip Bloom's work has show us how good the image from the EX-1 can be.
This takes work, a good understanding of how to use the technology, AND talent.

While Philip's videos are amazing, there are videos from others I've seen that are demonstrate the technical quality of the EX-1. They may lack the major impact of Phil's videos, but do show a sharp outstanding image with a minimum of noise and good colors.

So the camera is up to the task of producing outstanding images, how the rest turns out depends on who is using it and how they use it.

http://www.pairofhands.net/Ex1 vs HVX Shootout.html

http://www.freshdv.com/2007/09/more-xdcam-ex-pre-launch-official-specifications.html


Bob Diaz
 
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