everything is permitted...

(contains spoilers)

HMMMMM...

I'm not a big technical guy so I'll let others give their 2 cents on that.

In the beginning I was thinking, "That guy's mustache is funny and distracting," which means I wasn't very invested in the story a couple minutes in.

I liked him waking up, the headphones, etc. but then the sort of dry, slow crawl took me out of it. I feel like the weak beginning was an editing issue in that the guy in the mask would have solved for you. We have no foreshadowing -- the guy in the mask just randomly appears halfway through the story. Even if the photographer main character would have, I don't know, caught glimpses of the guy in the mask around campus, ya know? Anything so that when the guy in the mask is revealed and has taken hostages we know where it's coming from -- that and utilizing the ODDNESS of him earlier in the story would give us something to stay tuned for.

Foreshadowing isn't there to give the story away, it's to give the story some context. The difference between telling a true story and telling a fictional story is that fiction has to be based in consistent fact, wherein reality -- stuff just HAPPENS.

I felt like the headphone thing was (the way it was portrayed) more guided by the idea than how it fits into this story. The only thing I could conjure up in terms of the merits of having the headphones play a role was that when he has the headphones on he is able to stand outside of himself (as himself being the man in the mask). The premise of that is cool, but it needs to be handled in a different way if that is indeed what you're trying to communicate to your audience. Something as simple as doing a kind of wipe as he puts the headphones on/takes them off would communicate this more effectively.

I BELIEVE your subconscience was actually asking you to do this but you didn't act on it (because that's the way I like to think of things, lol). If you would have completely allowed yourself to invest in the totality of what the headphones might indicate, you could have had him remove the headphones at the end and using that as the reveal to whatever it is you wanted to show your audience -- whatever the atrocity.

Taken to the furthest possible degree you would inject a kind of self delusion, e.g. a kind of third perception that has this guy paint himself as a hero -- like saving the girl from the masked man (which he would only percieve himself as having done when in reality all's dead, right?)

On the awesome side, I very rarely actually jump when watching one of these user flicks, but the chair scene made me jump SPECIFICALLY because of the shot you got of the shadow. That's why the mirror trick always works in movies (someone opens the vanity mirror in the bathroom and then closes it and Candyman is behind them). It works because the character's surroundings have been fully established and despite them having been established there's a baddy there anyway.

All this is to say is that I feel like you have innate, good INSTINCTS as a filmmaker/storyteller. Now you need to take it a step further as an editor and writer. When you think you've dug yourself a hole deep enough in the script that you can't possibly dig your characters out, dig deeper. The deeper the hole you dig yourself into in terms of scripting the story, the greater the challenge it will be to find a satisfactory ending, thus the more you'll push yourself as a writer and all the better for the final result.

And as an editor focus on what matters to the STORY, that's it. How do you leave the audience walking away feeling the most satisified? Have you left out ANY information that they need to know for the (fictional) story to be cohesive? A reveal should never, ever, ever trump story. No one cares if it turns out that Sydney's boyfriend and his best friend are the two killers if the clues weren't meticulously placed throughout Scream, right?

So my critical thoughts:

1) Headphones should be more clearly established as the difference between percieved reality and actual reality if that is indeed your objective.

2) We need to know of the masked man's presence, whether it's in a reflection in the glass when he's taking pictures, whatever. Heck, maybe the photographer starts following her BECAUSE he sees the guy in the mask following her -- earns the trust of the boyfriend and the girl, plays them both into his basement of horror? Or maybe we don't understand/realize the infatuation until it BECOMES an infatuation. He's following the guy and girl because they're being followed and watched by this masked guy and then slowly the photographer waiting to see what happens (and wanting to photograph it when it does), starts to focus his attention and becomes obsessed with the girl. A hundred ways you can take this idea, but the complexities are there and that's what's missing from the story.

3) Don't be afraid to dig yourself a deeper hole, a more complex set of circumstances. THAT is what wins festivals and that is what gets short films turned into features.

But overall I thought it was cool. I'm sure other guys will chime in with the various sound and lighting issues (which I also caught but am less qualified to talk about than other people here), so I'll let them have at it. But yeah -- good job on giving me a jolt. That shot of the chair in the shadow was my favorite next to the guy's performance in the mask when he's taking off his hoodie. Fun stuff.
 
wow man, thanks a lot for all the feedback. I really liked all the ideas you presented. One of the things about really adding some complexity to the script was the time constraint. this was for my semester final for my intro film class. It was only sposed to be 4 minutes long and i ended up making this. haha, so i dont know how im going to cut that down, or if ill just make something else.

The headphones idea, was really kind of forced on it, which it shouldnt have been. the problem with this was that i had a lot of cool ideas i wanted to use in a film, and i wanted to use them all at once, but they werent really related. like the headphones, and a guy killing someone with a baseball bat in a gas mask. Like they were scenes i had in my head, that i wanted to tie togetehr. I realise this style of writing leads to a somewhat inconsistant narrative. how ever i wrote the script for this two years ago. my writing has developed a lot since then, and i actually just finished my first feature script, which i think would adress some of the issues you had with the writing.

obvioulsy that doesnt apply to what we made here, just, i have grown a lot as a film maker since writing this movie, but at the same time, i stil really wanted to shoot it, since now i have the tools and knowlege of how too, if that makes any sense.

also, haha its so funny you mentioned the mustahce, my friend Ryan, who plays the main character would sit next to me while i was editing, and every scene he would be like AHHH i need to shave, and i was like i dunno, its kinda like johnny depp esque. apparantly i was wrong and he was right. haha, but anyways, again thank you so much for the feed back, the postivie and negative. it means a lot when someone goes out of thier way to say that much.

look forward to hearing from more of you!

-ryan beacher
 
Great Steadycam work, what did you use?

I like that kill bill whistle music, but its so instantly recognizable that i would go with somehting else to give an errier feel.

Great writing. You had some nice looking shots, but what i really appreciated about your film is the writing. As someone who has done more writing that film making, its funny how rare an actual thought out and written story is. Good job there. That said, everything chamber mentioned was correct. I wasnt sure what the headphones were for, and the guy just appears.

After the bat swing miss in the chair i was really, really remined of Psycho Mantis from the Metal Gear Solid series (not sure if thats what you were going for, but im guessing not)

What was this shot on? What did you use for recording sound? Also, kudos to your main actor, he did a great job (i know first hand how dealing with non-actors can be less than ideal at times)

jon
 
linkdafourf said:
wow man, thanks a lot for all the feedback. I really liked all the ideas you presented. One of the things about really adding some complexity to the script was the time constraint. this was for my semester final for my intro film class. It was only sposed to be 4 minutes long and i ended up making this. haha, so i dont know how im going to cut that down, or if ill just make something else.

The headphones idea, was really kind of forced on it, which it shouldnt have been. the problem with this was that i had a lot of cool ideas i wanted to use in a film, and i wanted to use them all at once, but they werent really related. like the headphones, and a guy killing someone with a baseball bat in a gas mask. Like they were scenes i had in my head, that i wanted to tie togetehr. I realise this style of writing leads to a somewhat inconsistant narrative. how ever i wrote the script for this two years ago. my writing has developed a lot since then, and i actually just finished my first feature script, which i think would adress some of the issues you had with the writing.

obvioulsy that doesnt apply to what we made here, just, i have grown a lot as a film maker since writing this movie, but at the same time, i stil really wanted to shoot it, since now i have the tools and knowlege of how too, if that makes any sense.

also, haha its so funny you mentioned the mustahce, my friend Ryan, who plays the main character would sit next to me while i was editing, and every scene he would be like AHHH i need to shave, and i was like i dunno, its kinda like johnny depp esque. apparantly i was wrong and he was right. haha, but anyways, again thank you so much for the feed back, the postivie and negative. it means a lot when someone goes out of thier way to say that much.

look forward to hearing from more of you!

-ryan beacher
Click to expand...

That's what it felt like -- several different ideas. Makes sense.

There's so many ways to construct a story, though, and certainly a distinct set of imagery is one of them. The only thing you should never do in any kind of writing is write for some specific moment or occurence to exist. The same way you shouldn't have a character say XYZ line to set up another character's XYZ joke (as that never happens in real conversation) so too should your scenes have a realistic flow -- which CAN be administered via complex imagery as the context of the imagery (pertaining to story) has no place until you insert it and it then therefore exists FOR story.

So I don't care what you're writing. If you're writing a story about lumberjacks but you have an image in your mind about a mirror that melts and turns into some humanoid form and your instincts say that they belong together, that latter image of the mirror can exist for the story without you writing to include it. But once it's included it's your job to make sense of what's happened.

That's why I said I feel you have good instincts. In this piece, though, you didn't trust them. If you would have allowed yourself to truly exist as the main character in this story (doesn't matter when you originally wrote it), you yourself would have seen the man in the mask around campus and potentially (if that is indeed the way the story was supposed to pan out) following around the girl and the boyfriend.

Some writers like to describe stories as fossils -- as in they already exist and are just waiting to be dug up by the inititate who can find them. Going with that sensibility you would have received blips, indications and images pertaining to the story you found. Kind of like the deep Xray machine that can make out dinosaur bones buried in the earth. Most archeologists won't be able to tell you what type of dinosaur it is by that X-ray, but they can begin to form theories based on a variety of elements. Like them, you saw glimpses of something that you believed were aspects of a greater piece (that is what your instincts indicated). But when it came time to do the tough work of digging yourself into a hole that you might not be able to find your way out of, you pretty much bailed and so just presented us with some random components of something that had the potential (because stories can only ever have potential until an audience responds to it) to be really good.

And now, since you've uncovered and delivered the story to the world, you've probably missed your opprotunity to create the more complex structure that the story is actually composed of. Imagine if PI hadn't been a complete structure and had just been left with its most minimal components on the screen. Imagine if Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind had done that.

I have 3 or 4 new ideas for stories every single day. I've attuned myself to engage in the process of constant awareness for story consistently over the last ten years, and in ten years I've come up with six stories that are unique enough to deserve the telling. Six may not seem like a lot, but for me it's like striking gold, knowing that I have things that no one else has or have ever seen. If I hadn't trusted my instincts, though, and done the constant hard work of digging, I wouldn't have those precious few stories.

Generally, I'm just trying to impart on you what happens when you haphazardly shrug off your gift of instinct. YOU were given a gift that most people will never have or understand. *I* believe that, doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. I've seen countless short films and movies full of lots of technical prowess and know-how and tons of INTERPRETATIONS of some other storyteller's instincts, but so few who have the ability to truly receive story themselves (or, if they used to be connected to those instincts they've forgotten how to reconnect).

Right now I see in THIS short you provided raw storytelling instincts. Doesn't mean you'll make anything of them, doesn't mean you'll put in the kind of work that is required to be a master storyteller, just means that I recognize raw talent there. It's your job to foster and protect it. I can't speak to anything really as a filmmaker as so much of that is about technique, not talent IMO.

Whether you come back to this idea (short film) or not, in the future just make sure that if you start a story with imagery, you then demand from yourself that imagery be the melodies of your piece, intertwining throughout the story, making itself known through subtext (of imagery or otherwise).

And whatever you do, DON'T release your stories to the universe until you are absolutely sure you have done everything possible to complete them.

My advice. :)
 
i didnt use a steady cam, i just held the camera.
haha i wish i had a steady cam or some type of sound equipment,
but after using 1500 bucks to get my dvx100b, i am mad broke.
I dont even have enough for a tripod, which i desperatly need by next weekend, since we are starting our next short film.
The two leads, the guy in the gasmask and jason, are my two best friends. i make em be in my movies, and even though there "non-actors" like you said, i think they did a REALLY good job. they got really into character and put a lot of emotion into thier parts.

the three of us will likeley put out another short film by the end of next weekend.
I hope i can get some type of sound equpiment and at lleast a somewhat useable tripod.

also, the pyscho mantis thing, my friend cody and i are HUGE metal gear fans. i think he may have sub consiously talked and acted like him while we were shooting, i didnt even rrealize untill after i finished the movie, and then i was like craaaap, this is just straight up psycho mantis, oh well. regaurdless i think it still worked.

to chambers, - Right now I see in THIS short you provided raw storytelling instincts. Doesn't mean you'll make anything of them, doesn't mean you'll put in the kind of work that is required to be a master storyteller

what type of work would be put in. i really want to hone my craft, i mean ive been writing my one main feature for 3 years now. so i know what you mean by 6 stories in ten years being a lot. if i can get two in that amount of time i would be satisfied. but i really want to become a better story teller. when you said dig your self deeper and deeper, what did that mean exaclty, becasue i feel like my feature script could is missing something, maybe this idea of digging the characters into a hole could help me. could you elaborate?
 
As someone who has been making short films for only the last few months, but writing for years, i may be able to shed some light to.

Chamber suggested you add some foreshadowing, which is a good idea. Basically you have several elements of a good story, you have the ingrdients, but you still need to tie them togetgher. What you essentially did is have some good shots, some good build up (albiet a few distractions like a few of the music selections), but you left the audience confused on a few parts and some story elements just "appeared" out of no where.

You need to tie them together. Think of it as making some cookies. You got your butter, you got your choclate chips, you got your oven, and your bowl and your cookie sheet, and you put it all together for us, and you know what, it smells good. Smells good and gets our mouths watering from the aroma, but when we get to eating them, they crumble a bit, no flour to tie them together. Thats what you need.

You need specific plot elements to explain the villian, the headphones and it wouldnt hurt to explain a little more about why the character has his obsession.

You dont have to dedicate entire scenes to doing this, even jsut a few seconds, an added shot, or a line of dialogue can accomplish things like this in film.

I hope this makes sense. And ive had some luck with a $12 tripod that ive used in all my films so far. (Then again my camera is a bit lighter since im workign with a DSLR / D90). Just an idea.

Must say im pretty impressed you were able to go up stairs with little shake, good camera operation.

I dont think the psycho mantis thing is to bad because honestly the general public wont recognize it. I would however, definetly change the kill bill whistle to something creepier. that was a great, and creepy scene. That room is also a very good location you selected? Was it just someones basement? What is it?

Keep at it, look forward to more from you.

Oh, and one thing i like to do when making a film or writing, is take something of a similar theme, of a similar feel or tone, and watch things in that area. Not to copy per say, but just to note, shots, angles, lighting and story pacing etc... It also helps to explain to your crew and actors you want a shot similar to when they did this in such and such movie.

jon
 
thanks for the tips. haha and good analogy. i just showed it to my film professor today, and he said the same thing in a sense. that the end almost seemed like the end to a different story, in the begining its a story about love and the end its just a crazy person killing himself, because a lot of stuff isnt explained. I'll keep that in mind when filming my next project. also, i know for a fact a 12 dollar tripod would not suppourt my DVX, ive had a lot of bargain tripods and ALL of them have been a dissapointment, i need to just buckle down and buy one of the 180 dollar mathewstripod. that one is so good. regaurdless, im hoping after two or three more short films to finally start shooting my feature script.
I definatly learned a lot on this shoot, about what to do and definatly what not to do.
 
linkdafourf said:
i didnt use a steady cam, i just held the camera.
haha i wish i had a steady cam or some type of sound equipment,
but after using 1500 bucks to get my dvx100b, i am mad broke.
I dont even have enough for a tripod, which i desperatly need by next weekend, since we are starting our next short film.
The two leads, the guy in the gasmask and jason, are my two best friends. i make em be in my movies, and even though there "non-actors" like you said, i think they did a REALLY good job. they got really into character and put a lot of emotion into thier parts.

the three of us will likeley put out another short film by the end of next weekend.
I hope i can get some type of sound equpiment and at lleast a somewhat useable tripod.

also, the pyscho mantis thing, my friend cody and i are HUGE metal gear fans. i think he may have sub consiously talked and acted like him while we were shooting, i didnt even rrealize untill after i finished the movie, and then i was like craaaap, this is just straight up psycho mantis, oh well. regaurdless i think it still worked.

to chambers, - Right now I see in THIS short you provided raw storytelling instincts. Doesn't mean you'll make anything of them, doesn't mean you'll put in the kind of work that is required to be a master storyteller

what type of work would be put in. i really want to hone my craft, i mean ive been writing my one main feature for 3 years now. so i know what you mean by 6 stories in ten years being a lot. if i can get two in that amount of time i would be satisfied. but i really want to become a better story teller. when you said dig your self deeper and deeper, what did that mean exaclty, becasue i feel like my feature script could is missing something, maybe this idea of digging the characters into a hole could help me. could you elaborate?
Click to expand...

By "digging deeper" I'm talking about the circumstances more than anything. I'm probably not the best teacher in regards to storytelling -- better teachers are usually people who understand structure and creative components but have no ability to wield them, they're just extrapolating and trying to form reason as to why some things work in stories and some thing do not.

Digging deeper does nothing to someone who doesn't have innate ability, it only leads to a more complex frustration and a longer divorce period for when they finally give up on their craft to go lead a more normal life. I only say this as a warning as once you start to really descend the rabbit hole you're only hurting yourself if you someday decide that's not where you want to be.

But to your request I'd say take whatever story you have right now that is speaking to you, the one that's making you feel like there's something just around the bend, just behind the curtain that will transcend it from being a mediocre story to possibly a great story. The first thing you have to do is to ask yourself if you've pushed your characters far enough. If you're only pushing the morality (and in some cases emotional, physical and mental) limits of your characters to levels ever found in known history, then you haven't pushed them far enough and have so far had nothing truly important to say in your story, which means you haven't yet comprehended what the story is trying to show you about man, the universe -- the very knowledge of being that all storytellers must impart.

IMO when our characters arrive to us in story surrounded by its inhabitants of conflict and trial, that is what every half-assed archeologist (e.g. writer) can discover. From this point the average writer creating the average story will immediately begin using his "tools" of the trade, enhancing things here, polishing things there, making some things less appealing and others more attractive, they'll focus on pacing and that god awful friend of the dull witted, "plot". This, though, is not how a person with a true gift and talent should behave. The gifted storyteller will immediately, upon finding and securing their story, inhabit it. They'll exist with the character in the moment, feeling what they feel, understanding life as they do, and when things COMMON that pertain to STORY should arise, the storyteller as the person outside the character and story enacts his ability -- and that ability is probably most easily defined as an innate and complete comprehension of the human condition.

If, in the moment, the character the writer is inhabiting approaches a lake, the storyteller understands what swims beneath the lake, though the character does not. The storyteller knows what inhabits the lake because the story, after much prodding and digging and pulling away of the mundane, SHOWED the storyteller what was swimming in the lake and the storyteller, so gifted, then can once again inhabit the character and proceed into the lake, in the moment, BLIND to the realities of the story, BLIND to what is coming next because in that moment he exists as character, in the now, understanding only what is, not what is to come.

So when I say dig, I'm speaking specifically of circumstances. From a "tool box" perspective that would mean taking your character and putting him into an impossible situation and then existing as the character as you/he/she tries to either escape the circumstances or overcome the obstacle.

But again, escaping circumstance or overcoming obstacles are TOOLS -- things the ungifted and the gifted alike both must utilize from time to time. The difference between the two probably lies in the motivation behind the use of the tool. If you are using the tools as a way to bring out more of the story that already existed as you found it (but have yet to uncover), then I'd say you're on the right track; if you're using the tools to create something, a MEANS TO AN END, a kind of generic CONSTRUCTION taught or utilized by some other writer or demanded by some audience or casual viewer, well, that's a hack. Hack's make money, but hack's aren't storytellers and they are not gifted and in the end the trite tales they tell are forgotten and never retold as all good stories must be in some form or fashion.

Listen to what the story is, search for the most challenging or horrific or confusing thing swimming around in that massive lake that sits in the middle of your story, bring it to the surface, and then leave it there, lost and forgotten until you as the character, embodied and immersed, come upon that lake and discover it anew. The "digging" was done, the story has unfolded itself, once at the lake the reality of your decisions comes to bear -- and from that point on no "writing" occurs in the sense that the non initiate understand it. At that point you are free and unafraid to let story pass through you as you yourself no longer matter except for the breath, blood and hands you give it. Once the story, the true story in its most raw form is uncovered, everything else fades as your purpose is enacted.

But like I said, I'm no teacher. I know when someone is trying to be a storyteller, trying to exist for something that they were never meant to exist for, but I don't know that I can teach someone, even someone who's gifted, to be better at their craft.

Living life helps, I think. Probably reading the dictionary too. ;)
 
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