Everything a little soft?

F

Flotsam

Active member
Well, we've been testing our AF100 whenever we've had the chance for the past week. The noise issues are well documented here so there's little point in going over that except to say that those who were seeing noise on the footage Leo kindly posted weren't going crazy. On default cinegamme/cine matrix settings, unacceptable shadow noise is there and clearly visible via HDSDI into our Tektronix scopes but the camera can be tweaked to lessen the effect, as many here have posted. Then there's the trailing noise artefacts (similar to HPX370 with DNR on). Performance is also much better at ISO200.

Our main concern, though, is that everything appears just a little soft. Down-scaled for the web or down-converted to SD it's all fine but - particularly on a deep focus wide - footage just isn't sharp, especially when viewed on a large HD production monitor or 1080p projector. I know the camera is only rated by Panasonic at 800 lines but wide shots here look worse than up-scaled 720p. We've been using the Voigtlander F-mount adapter with a set of Nikon primes (24 f2.8; 25 f2.0; 50 f1.4) and the Kipon adapter with a Canon EF f1.4. All the lenses perform perfectly on our stills cameras.

The big question for me is whether this issue is down to the adapter or if it's just that the OLPF is simply too aggressive. Producing electronics that do a convincing job of down-scaling 12MP to 1920x1080 in a small low-cost camera is obviously no small feat, so I wonder if it's the OLPF and Panasonic have just used something very strong to combat aliasing and decided to land on the side of soft instead of moire! This is not just a problem on the AVC capture but also live via baseband HDSDI directly into calibrated grade one monitors, production monitors and a full HD projector. For reference, I can get sharper wides on infinity filming the same scene from 720p cameras like the HM700, even just using the projector's pretty terrible internal up-scale. With a Teranex, the difference is quite shocking...

Detail enhancement does not help - the underlying image just doesn't look properly focused on any medium to high frequency detail.

This is obviously not something that can be judged from Vimeo or YouTube encodes, so can anyone post a high quality full raster frame grab of AF100 footage they consider to be a sharp wide with fine detail like trees/leaves, landscapes etc?
 
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If you are unsure whether the problem is with the lens adapter or the OLPF I would suggest shooting a proper chart at measurement rather than a random wide shot. I will say that in my experience with wide lenses on the AF100, lens adapter choice makes a huge difference. We have several different lens adapters that had problems with wide lenses giving sharp focus. The key is finding an adapter with stricter tolerances, which is usually a more expensive adapter.

Good Luck!

Dave
 
When I look at a chart and can witness 800 lines easily, it is not the OLPF. I would take a closer look at the adapter you have chosen, a fraction can cause a lot of issues. Just because it mounts doesn't mean it works.

Best,

Jan
 
Thanks for your input, Jan and David.

I agree that the adapter is critical. We have several. The cheap eBay M4/3 to F mount we have is just terrible and you lose infinity on most Nikon lenses. The Voigtlander, though, is highly regarded and is certainly not cheap. David, have you been using F-mount lenses and, if so, which adapter gives you the best results?

Would anyone care to post a wide, infinity focus frame grab? It would be ideal if this was from a Nikon lens, of course!

Has anyone done any meaningful/precise tests on the various adapters out there? Any comments on the f-mount adapter options?
 
So which Nikon lens are you using or is it some other manufacturer with the Nikon mount? Can't really test till Tuesday but will. But I have had my 35, 50mm micro-Nikkor and the 105 on it and they are beautiful. I am using the novoflex and my engineer is using the Voightlander. We both agree that the quality is there and they are not soft. So, will work on that frame grab on Tuesday.

Best,

Jan
 
I have detail turned down to -7 on both detail and Vdetail. Doesn't look soft to me. The good thing about shooting soft is to avoid artifacts before hitting the codec, because afterwards, in post, you can add sharpening and it looks great!
 
The best footage people have posted looks sharp to me without that hard edged false detail look of some HD cameras. Very nice smooth finely detailed images. If the flange focus distance errs on the long side you can get this problem. You can do a rough check of this by shooting something very close up. If that shows good sharp detail, but something focused at infinity looks soft, your flange focal distance for the adapter is too long.
 
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Yes, I agree 100% about detail settings. It's definitey a priority on most HD cameras to turn down or disable edge enhancement and any other sharpening options and I do know the difference between an artificially sharpened and true smooth/sharp image. What I'm seeing on all our stills lenses (EOS and Nikkor) is a general softness at all focal lengths on but it is particularly evident on fine detail. Now, resolution isn't everything (something I tell most of our clients at some point) and I'd rather shoot with a great 720p camera than a poorly resolved/engineered 1080p camera any day BUT the footage I'm seeing doesn't even quailfy for decent 720p. We do post work day-in day-out to a high level and I trust our eyes on this. Medium and high frequency detail looks like it's getting softened. I wish I had a zone plate chart.

Originally, we were seeing this on footage shot outside straight to the internal cards, so we set up on a tripod in our main finishing suite and used a 24" 1080p monitor to judge focus. Focus assist/peaking and our eyes were telling us we were reaching focus as we racked back and forth on closer objects but nothing looks tack sharp beyond around 6ft on any lens or any of the adapters we have here.

Jan, to answer your questions, we have been using a range of Nikon AI and AIs prime lenses (some listed in my first post). I'm very much looking forward to a frame grab from some wide shots with fine detail that you're happy with!
 
Flotsam said:
Originally, we were seeing this on footage shot outside straight to the internal cards, so we set up on a tripod in our main finishing suite and used a 24" 1080p monitor to judge focus. Focus assist/peaking and our eyes were telling us we were reaching focus as we racked back and forth on closer objects but nothing looks tack sharp beyond around 6ft on any lens or any of the adapters we have here.

!
Click to expand...

That definitely sounds like the flange focus distance is too long, the lens is farther from the focal plane than it should be and can't focus fully as you approach infinity. Like having an extension barrel or diopter lens attached for macros.
 
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