EVA1: EVA1 or C200

scorsesefan

scorsesefan

Veteran
I was thinking of selling my FS5 and purchasing an EVA1 or C200. I like everything about the FS5 except the 4K codec and color science (which are big caveats I guess). What I like about the EVA1 is the robust codecs and the color. Same with the Canon's color, except I do a lot of run n' gun and I can't see myself springing for a bunch of expensive CFAST cards.

My main concern is with the EVA1's lcd which I hear isn't the best. Is it really unusable outside?

Thoughts and suggestions would be welcome.

Thanks.
 
By default, your choice is the EVA1 if you like robust codecs and can't see yourself springing for CFAST cards since the C200's robust codec is only available on a CFAST card.

And the EVA1's LCD is unusable in most situations outside. At least definitely in any kind of sun. But the C200's isn't spectacular either, but you have AF and a VF.
 
you need a highbright monitor or EVF for either if your shooting mostly outdoors.

That said, there are feelworld monitors with 2200 nits for like 200 bucks now, so get the camera that takes care of the other big factors: capture codec, image look and feel, and shooting ergonomics beyond the monitoring.

C200 is not a good run and gun cam if you are not ok with the 8 bit codec and also not ok with the CRL media requirements, to say nothing of the demands during post.
 
I have a Feelworld type of monitor. I like to shoot very stripped down (very fast moving verite) so the idea of putting a monitor like that on a run n' gun camera doesn't appeal to me. The FS5 is the perfect form factor camera for my needs but if you don't get your WB perfect in 4K you're in for a headache in post and Sony skin tones make everyone look like Herman Munster ;)
 
EVA1_HandHeld_VF_I.jpg
I've been a big fan of the EVA1 ever since I started using it a couple of years ago. Had stayed with my F3 until my clients started requiring 4k - and never liked the color of the FS7 or lack of features of the FS5. EVA1 had the features I needed plus great color - and super-light design.
But yes, an EVF is pretty much mandatory (as it also was with the F3) - so I reconfigured the old Zacuto EVF from my F3 rig - and keep the Panasonic VF for director or client when I'm running around -- plenty of attachment points for that. I got a couple of 15mm rod adapters and a mini-cheeseplate for the EVA1 - which made the mount a breeze.
 
I thought long and hard about this a few years ago and went with the C200. I've generally been very happy with the camera. The big draw is the DPAF. I don't trust the face tracking for critical work but the object tracking has allowed me to get shots that I never could have with the EVA 1.

Instead of CFast cards, I have a SolidPod "permanently" attached to my C200 in a low-profile configuration, recording Canon Raw Lite to economical MSATA drives. Though, the H264 is surprisingly robust and doesn't require as much Neat Video in post. It does have some annoying quirks and I did have to spend some time figuring out how best to rig the camera for my needs. Now that it's done, it feels a lot like the first C300, which is fine by me.

Image quality is very good, but that's generally been true for cinema cameras since around 2012. Citing better-looking skintones, I've talked a few clients into letting me use the C200 instead of FS5s and FS7s and they've all been very happy with what I was able to produce for them.

Personally, I don't like the way the C200 feels in my hand as much as the original C100 (or the FS5 for that matter), but that's not a major complaint. It's the Honda Accord of cinema cameras -- I can't quite get excited about it, but it gets me where I need to go. I can't imagine needing another camera for quite some time.
 
I have been at the point too and went for the EVA1. I didn't regret it for a second.
Image wise it's a big step up from the FS5 or FS7.
I found a modified BM URSA viewfinder which works great.

Screenshot 2020-07-09 at 12.16.58.jpg

I always hated Canon for the crippling and 8bit was a no-go
in the C200 as 30p only in the C300ii. DPAF is great though.
That's why I went for the C300iii now but I saw the EVA1 going
with a tear in the eye
 
I love the EVA1's weight! People knock its plasticky build but that's what makes it light.

Honestly, you can't go wrong with either EVA1 or C200. It's just a matter of usability preference and how much are you willing to deal with either camera's negative attributes.

EVA1 offers a good selection of internal codecs to choose from. C200's 8 bit codec is not as bad as what people are making of it.

Do you need internal raw at all times? C200 has an advantage here. Otherwise, you'll need another device for the EVA1 which is additional cost and weight.

You can still use EVA1's LCD but you'll need something like Zacuto's Z-finder loupe to keep the cost down.

Just get yourself an external viewfinder like Zacuto's Kameleon or Gratical Eye so its usable regardless of the location but if its not your style then an external monitor with high enough nits or hood.
 
Retrospective said:
I love the EVA1's weight! People knock its plasticky build but that's what makes it light.

Honestly, you can't go wrong with either EVA1 or C200. It's just a matter of usability preference and how much are you willing to deal with either camera's negative attributes.

EVA1 offers a good selection of internal codecs to choose from. C200's 8 bit codec is not as bad as what people are making of it.

Do you need internal raw at all times? C200 has an advantage here. Otherwise, you'll need another device for the EVA1 which is additional cost and weight.

You can still use EVA1's LCD but you'll need something like Zacuto's Z-finder loupe to keep the cost down.

Just get yourself an external viewfinder like Zacuto's Kameleon or Gratical Eye so its usable regardless of the location but if its not your style then an external monitor with high enough nits or hood.
Click to expand...

Thanks. Are there any other loupe options that are less expensive for the EVA1?
 
I owned a C200 and sold it and got an EVA1.

I prefer the EVA1, but with some caveats:

Confusing menu system.

Mediocre LCD and no EVF.

Maybe 1/3 stop less highlight dynamic range. But it's close and the smoother noise texture and lack of CMOS banding on the EVA1 to me far outweighs any dynamic range advantage the C200 might have.

4k 60p HEVC codec has more macro blocking than 10 bit raw.

Lack of DPAF, which is excellent.

I bought the Kinotehnik loupe. It doesn't quite fit the LCD screen (crops 1mm at the side maybe) and it's a poor image compared with a real EVF, but for someone as lazy as me it was a better option. I also blacked out the shiny inside with painter's tape. Someone else repurposed a Sony loupe and had a better result, but that looks like a lot of work.

The "look" from the cameras is quite different. C200 feels like a more magenta more muted low contrast Alexa knockoff (not the punchy C100 look, which I'm fond of), whereas the EVA1 more closely resembles a Varicam–more saturated, especially in the highlights. Good image with the Nicest LUT.
 
Last year I put on sale my EVA1, but recently cancelled it with the release of Blackmagic's Video Assist 12G HDR, which supports BRAW recording from EVA1. Coming from the RED ecosystem (owned two RED cameras in the past), it took me a while to get used to the EVA1, but over the years it's turned into one of the best cameras I've owned so far for all the reasons posted here and a few others. My biggest regret was that it did not record RAW internally (I purchased it with the shogun inferno for raw features, but never liked the workflow and ended up selling the monitor).
But as I said, I have decided to keep it after all, because I came to the realization that, for my type of work, there are no other cameras in the market right now that offer me so many features (and a great color science) in a such a compact system (yes, the menus are quite counterintuitive, especially compared to Blackmagic's cameras).

BTW, is there any (good) BRAW sample footage shot with the EVA1 out there? I did find some in youtube, but they are not great. It's been a while since the release of the Blackmagic monitors and I'm surprised that there is practically no test footage out there.

cheers
 
watusi said:
Last year I put on sale my EVA1, but recently cancelled it with the release of Blackmagic's Video Assist 12G HDR, which supports BRAW recording from EVA1. Coming from the RED ecosystem (owned two RED cameras in the past), it took me a while to get used to the EVA1, but over the years it's turned into one of the best cameras I've owned so far for all the reasons posted here and a few others. My biggest regret was that it did not record RAW internally (I purchased it with the shogun inferno for raw features, but never liked the workflow and ended up selling the monitor).
But as I said, I have decided to keep it after all, because I came to the realization that, for my type of work, there are no other cameras in the market right now that offer me so many features (and a great color science) in a such a compact system (yes, the menus are quite counterintuitive, especially compared to Blackmagic's cameras).

BTW, is there any (good) BRAW sample footage shot with the EVA1 out there? I did find some in youtube, but they are not great. It's been a while since the release of the Blackmagic monitors and I'm surprised that there is practically no test footage out there.

cheers
Click to expand...

Heh, for me internal raw (and a poor .mp4 codec) was the biggest problem with the C200. I didn't have the storage space or horsepower.

Can you record b raw and ALL-I simultaneously? I'd be really curious to see how they compare on a high dynamic range scene.
 
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scorsesefan said:
I was thinking of selling my FS5 and purchasing an EVA1 or C200. I like everything about the FS5 except the 4K codec and color science (which are big caveats I guess). What I like about the EVA1 is the robust codecs and the color. Same with the Canon's color, except I do a lot of run n' gun and I can't see myself springing for a bunch of expensive CFAST cards.

My main concern is with the EVA1's lcd which I hear isn't the best. Is it really unusable outside?

Thoughts and suggestions would be welcome.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Not sure if I am too late to the party, but I see the C200 as a gap filler if one has a few Canon cameras. Makes an awesome Bcam, and matches both the MK2's and the MK3 Cine EOS cameras. But also works well in mlticam on a budget.

EVA1 is a bit of an orphan, though perhaps as the GH and S line have closed the gap in image quality, it may now be a nice little eco system too. But if you are a one camera person and have a lot of say over your work and what you do, the EVA1 seems to be a good camera that rivals or beats the C200 in many ways.

The thing about cameras these days, is which ones make your life better. I've been wrangling some RED footage lately, and to be honest, I am having to learn a lot about post to make this thing look as good as I feel it should, but I am not a super fan of the default look. It has a good default look, but I want a little more. The EVA1 reminds me of that. Like I know it has good guts, but I keep feeling like I am going to have to really wrangle it to get it to look as good as I know it can. And if the default look is working for you, then great. Seems the EVA has really good neutral colour science without losing aesthetics. On the flip side, Canon Wide DR annoyingly clips earlier than I'd like, and I end up using C-log and having to grade... so maybe 6/half a dozen.

But if I had to differentiate the two in to choices, I'd categorize the C200 as an eco system choice, and getting the "look" that is popular. The EVA would be a bit more of a "I know what I want and I know what I am getting into and I know what I have to do" sort of camera choice. I think Panasonic colour science is underrated, but it certainly isn't "the look".
 
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I've considered the EVA1 as well as the C200 but I just keep coming back to the Pocket 6k/4k for that BRAW codec.

Honestly just want to see a Pocket 6k/4k in a C200/EVA1/URSA style body.
 
That would be nice. EVA1 owners who have one of the new BM recorders can at least have BRAW externally.
 
sgttom said:
I've considered the EVA1 as well as the C200 but I just keep coming back to the Pocket 6k/4k for that BRAW codec.

Honestly just want to see a Pocket 6k/4k in a C200/EVA1/URSA style body.
Click to expand...

You might get your wish. New BM announcement tomorrow...
 
sgttom said:
Honestly just want to see a Pocket 6k/4k in a C200/EVA1/URSA style body.
Click to expand...

which one exactly? :smile:
there's a huge difference between C200/EVA1 and the URSA mini.
The weight of the UM was 80% of my decision not to go for it.
 
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