Etiquette Question

S

stringz

Active member
I have often found in my short career that asking a camera op for playback after a take gets me a look of disgust or a comment such as "are you going to ask me for this every take?".
I hardly ever ask for playback, but I do after the first shot/take of the day, just to make sure it's going to tape ok. I don't think this warrants the camera ops disdain, so why do i get it?
I know the answer ultimately is to record on a separate machine, but i don't have one yet and often it's presumed by the production that the audio will be going straight onto the camera tape.
Any opinions on this, cos it's something that really bugs me.
 
Did a job here in Oz about a week ago with a camera person that I am unfamiliar with and it was exactly the same scenario, got to the point where he said later "that is what you should be doing listening off tape" which I was , though I like to check periodically with a replay, have done so for many years and I'm not about to change. The older more experienced camera persons that I work with more regularly have no issue apart from if its a rushed job however spot checks at the right time are invaluable from my experience.
cheers
 
Yes, the old skool guys seem to fine with this. I usually do listen to the camera output, but occasionally the return from the camera is so dismal that I choose to listen to my mixer output and then switch periodically to make sure it's ok back from the camera.
But even then I still want to have some playback every now and then. I have heard stories from other recordists that although the return from the camera was ok during a take, when they played back afterwards there was either something wrong with the sound or no sound laid on the tape at all. With this in mind, i'd love to check everything back, but i'm scared i'd never be booked again.
 
Unfortunately its a fine balancing act and the reason that monitoring off tape isn't the absolute answer is that its in real time and no matter how good your cans you will always have bleed unlike when you have replay which is only that. These issues are not always completely understood by others where it is of little importance or priority.
cheers
 
Anyone who refuses you at least one initial playback off tape (or equivalent) is an amateur.

There...I said it...

Additional periodic checks, even if only for a few seconds at a time, should be routine. Monitoring "off tape" is not possible with most digital cameras. What you get at best is an A/D-D/A pass-through of the input signal. A defective tape would reveal no problems whatsoever under those circumstances until it's played back.

With few exceptions, only analog machines like Nagras have true off-tape (or "post-media") monitoring. They have secondary, playback only heads that literally read back the recorded material a split second later. Many a tape dropout has been detected that way.

Solid state digital systems (hard disk recorder, Pro Tools, P2 or equivalent) are more reliable, but I still believe in playback spot-checks for them as well when you're recording live material and then moving on permanently. Hard disk fragmentation, bad sectors and other problems do happen.

The cameraperson should be just as concerned about the picture. When the technology allows a quick playback of the finished product (unlike with film) only a fool would forego that little bit of cheap insurance.

There...I said it again...
 
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I'll second that - A cam op that refuses a playback, or even thinks about giving you a hard time for requesting one is an amateur @sshole. When I'm recording to tape, that playback deck is as much mine as it is his - he's got his lens, you've got your mics, you SHARE a recording medium. and it is completely REASONABLE AND SENSIBLE AND PROFESSIONAL to verify a transfer to tape after the first scene/shot of the day.

and i totally agree with ted - they SHOULD be as concerned about picture. i did a playback test after a first interview on a set the other day only to find that our rental camera had a defective head that was recording perfect audio but UNUSABLE picture because of dropout. The cam op was pretty grateful I checked that day.

You should know how to check playback on the camera's you work with, and even more importantly, how to park the tape correctly and verify to the camera person that you HAVE end searched the tape after you check footage... having this kind of cam competent approach often helps me, i find. Its more a question of - "hey man, i'm checking our footage quickly, ill make sure to park the tape and let you know that everything is fine" than "please can we check that back? read: im scared sh*tless and i dont know what im doing"
 
not on a camera that is well maintained and serviced. i have encountered a camera or two that i was told didnt like playback... but thats a hardware issue, its not how the dv tape technology was designed...
 
timapter said:
not on a camera that is well maintained and serviced. i have encountered a camera or two that i was told didnt like playback... but thats a hardware issue, its not how the dv tape technology was designed...
Click to expand...

A camera that "doesn't like playback" has no business being on a shoot. Use that one for filming Diet Coke bottle launches.
 
exactly. if they cant afford to service their camera into a usable state to check playback, then they shouldnt EXPECT a good result on tape, they should just hope for it.

and hoping doesnt crack it in film and tv.
 
repeated playback wears out the tape, the heads and the motors for the tape deck. I keep it to a minimum but that is because of stupid directors wanting to review. every. single. f**king. take. Audio is important enough that it is justifiable to actually go back and check just like you would check the footage. Not because the director is too much of a flake.
 
Ted Spencer said:
Monitoring "off tape" is not possible with most digital cameras. What you get at best is an A/D-D/A pass-through of the input signal. A defective tape would reveal no problems whatsoever under those circumstances until it's played back..
Click to expand...

Ted's right. I try to do this before the first setup so it causes as little problem as possible, but I have been on shoots where the director or shooter wants to see and/or hear what they got. If I run into the attitude you did (and it's not a "run and gun - no time for this stuff" shoot, I just say the camera headphone amp is really funky and I want to hear what the tape sounds like to make sure something didn't sneak through and clip.

I'll usually say that to the producer/director rather than the shooter (if there are one of each). That way, the shooter doesn't make the call, the producer does.

Regards,

Ty Ford
 
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