Erased - feature trailer
- Thread starter Mike@AF
- Start date
It looks like it could be a gamma issue, but I'm not sure. I did smelni's suggestion with the softlight transfer mode using the composite option by right clicking on the clips in the V2 and V3 tracks. I also applied an opacity of 35% to those clips in the V2 and V3 tracks.
I can see a huge difference in the canvas compared to what is in V1 by itself (I can view that in the viewer), but the Quicktime output is much less noticeable. There's a slight difference, deeper shadows, brighter highlights, and better color saturation, but nothng like what I see in the canvas. I'm comparing them by opening the Quicktime movie file in Quicktime and placing it over my FCP workspace right next to the canvas. There's a night and day difference.
Here's a couple screen captures that shows the actual difference I'm seeing:
Viewer on left and canvas on right in FCP. Viewer is the original color correction. Canvas is with the softlight compositing.
QT export of composite on the left, canvas on the right.
I can see a huge difference in the canvas compared to what is in V1 by itself (I can view that in the viewer), but the Quicktime output is much less noticeable. There's a slight difference, deeper shadows, brighter highlights, and better color saturation, but nothng like what I see in the canvas. I'm comparing them by opening the Quicktime movie file in Quicktime and placing it over my FCP workspace right next to the canvas. There's a night and day difference.
Here's a couple screen captures that shows the actual difference I'm seeing:
Viewer on left and canvas on right in FCP. Viewer is the original color correction. Canvas is with the softlight compositing.
QT export of composite on the left, canvas on the right.
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electricpig
Well-known member
What codec are you writing out to? This looks like gamma.
What is the difference is there if you import the exported quicktime back into FCP and compare with the canvas?
Working with Shake and FCP I've learnt to ignore a DVCProHD Shake exported QT look, as gamma is visually screwed on output (it's a 'feature'). Putting back into FCP confirms that everything is transparent and OK.
What is the difference is there if you import the exported quicktime back into FCP and compare with the canvas?
Working with Shake and FCP I've learnt to ignore a DVCProHD Shake exported QT look, as gamma is visually screwed on output (it's a 'feature'). Putting back into FCP confirms that everything is transparent and OK.
smelni said:
I agree in most cases of the various shots in the trailer and other parts of the movie. The only problem is getting it to export to QT. I don't know why it's not showing in QT even though the information is still there.
Actually, wait... are you referring to my original color correction or the version after I applied the process you gave me?
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DoodaDude said:
Good thought, but I tried H.264 and get the same results. It did make me think though and I tried a DVD output to a .m2v file and it retained the filters/compositing/opacity settings and looks just like the canvas. I exported the H.264 and .m2v with Compressor.
So now we know there's something that works, what could be causing this problem with QT and H.264?
Check this out:
http://www.hdforindies.com/2006/09/final-cut-quicktime-color-luma-woes.html
Others are having this problem.
http://www.hdforindies.com/2006/09/final-cut-quicktime-color-luma-woes.html
Others are having this problem.
This is completely unacceptable. :angry:
electricpig
Well-known member
Try exporting a section out to uncompressed 8-bit, then export in QT Pro to DVCProHD (or whatever you want your final output to be) See what that does to the colour.
It's a gamma-white-clipping jungle out there in the QT world. As the article states, QT is being too clever. This all came up on the last Shake beta I was on - turns out virtually every codec has it's own individual gamma.
It's a gamma-white-clipping jungle out there in the QT world. As the article states, QT is being too clever. This all came up on the last Shake beta I was on - turns out virtually every codec has it's own individual gamma.
electricpig said:
Okay, I gave that a try and FCP exports as 4:3 so everything is squeezed. There's no option to change it and no way to convert back to 16:9. Color is still gone in that export. When I export that file in QT Pro to DVCProHD the color is still not there. Same thing with 10bit uncompressed (figured I would try it).
jenningsp
Well-known member
i know it's been discussed endlessly 
but i think you need to be more bold in your colour correction.
i can tell from your trailer that you're going for the whole thriller chase conspiracy movie type genre. one film of the same genre that i love is the Borne Supremacy.
check out all the awesome colour palettes in that movie.
one piece of advice that i can give is; create a mood in EACH scene. then try to show that in the colouring. like in a warm heartfelt scene have a yellow or red tinge to everything and in a brutal torture scene put a cold blue or green tinge etc...
in most of your shots in the trailer you have the overly clean image of video - no stylization. this is what makes the image flat and boring. - as stated by others before
don't be afraid to "dirty up" your clean footage. try out some weird over the top colour choices and maybe you'll come up with something awesome
here are some examples i've done... you'll need to step through the video to see it properly. my favorite is the last one.
http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/19156/1175367465.mov
the video is the original - the corrected - the settings.
they're not my best work, some of it's a bit over the top, but they do demonstrate what i mean
play around with the settings until you find a nice looking image. there are no rules for colour correcting, just what looks good.
i hope this helps.
but i think you need to be more bold in your colour correction.i can tell from your trailer that you're going for the whole thriller chase conspiracy movie type genre. one film of the same genre that i love is the Borne Supremacy.
check out all the awesome colour palettes in that movie.
one piece of advice that i can give is; create a mood in EACH scene. then try to show that in the colouring. like in a warm heartfelt scene have a yellow or red tinge to everything and in a brutal torture scene put a cold blue or green tinge etc...
in most of your shots in the trailer you have the overly clean image of video - no stylization. this is what makes the image flat and boring. - as stated by others before
don't be afraid to "dirty up" your clean footage. try out some weird over the top colour choices and maybe you'll come up with something awesome
here are some examples i've done... you'll need to step through the video to see it properly. my favorite is the last one.
http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/19156/1175367465.mov
the video is the original - the corrected - the settings.
they're not my best work, some of it's a bit over the top, but they do demonstrate what i mean
play around with the settings until you find a nice looking image. there are no rules for colour correcting, just what looks good.
i hope this helps.
I know exactly what you're talking about and I've done some of that. The problem is that because I've used the Soft Light composite transfer mode that Smelni recommended I cannot export it in a way that you can see what I've done. I will have to see if I can create that look without using that soft light method so QT will encode correctly.
I agree that the last example you did is the best of them and it's very similar to what I have in FCP now. The main difference is that my version is more saturated. I feel yours is a little too desaturated. I don't really like some of the "weird" color choices you've used, but I can try some things. I prefer a more subtle coloring for this film than anything drastic or extravagant.
If there was a way to output the film the way it is in FCP besides DVD then everyone would be able to see what I've done. The problem seems to be with the way QT works.
It's going to take some time to re-color the whole movie to get the look from the soft light, but I can probably get the trailer done pretty quickly if I actually can figure it out.
I agree that the last example you did is the best of them and it's very similar to what I have in FCP now. The main difference is that my version is more saturated. I feel yours is a little too desaturated. I don't really like some of the "weird" color choices you've used, but I can try some things. I prefer a more subtle coloring for this film than anything drastic or extravagant.
If there was a way to output the film the way it is in FCP besides DVD then everyone would be able to see what I've done. The problem seems to be with the way QT works.
It's going to take some time to re-color the whole movie to get the look from the soft light, but I can probably get the trailer done pretty quickly if I actually can figure it out.
Okay here goes... The pics showing up here are lower res than the originals. If you can't see what's there very well you can click the "hires" word just below each pic and view the hires version. If you need more detail than this let me know. And thanks for the help.
This is from the actual trailer sequence and shows this particular clips color correction settins. These settings just give it a neutral look, nothing special nd probably why no one likes it.
hires
The shows the color correction settings of the nested trailer sequence for this clip section on V1. There are no other changes to this layer.
hires
This shows the Channel Swap filter settings and composite mode settings of the same section on V2 layer.
hires
This shows the opacity setting for the V2 layer.
hires
This shows the Gaussian blur filter setting and composite mode setting for the V3 layer.
hires
This shows the opacity setting for the V3 layer.
hires
This shows my Quicktime Movie export settings... notice it's set to use Current Settings. See my current settings below.
hires
The next 4 pics are the relevant sequence settings for my trailer sequence, nested trailer sequence, and the actual movie sequence. edit- I just addded another pick of the Advanced settings for the QT codec.
hires
hires
This is from the actual trailer sequence and shows this particular clips color correction settins. These settings just give it a neutral look, nothing special nd probably why no one likes it.
hires
The shows the color correction settings of the nested trailer sequence for this clip section on V1. There are no other changes to this layer.
hires
This shows the Channel Swap filter settings and composite mode settings of the same section on V2 layer.
hires
This shows the opacity setting for the V2 layer.
hires
This shows the Gaussian blur filter setting and composite mode setting for the V3 layer.
hires
This shows the opacity setting for the V3 layer.
hires
This shows my Quicktime Movie export settings... notice it's set to use Current Settings. See my current settings below.
hires
The next 4 pics are the relevant sequence settings for my trailer sequence, nested trailer sequence, and the actual movie sequence. edit- I just addded another pick of the Advanced settings for the QT codec.
hires
hires
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I've attempted some more color correction without the use of the soft light composite mode. Here's what I have:
This is the original after color correcting to make it neutral.
This is with additional color correction and using Magic Bullet Look Suite filter.
I didn't like how much the blacks were getting crushed by the Look Suite filter and losing all the detail of his hair. I added a Color Corrector 3-way filter, raised the black level and set the limiting option for luma so it would only affect mostly his hair and get the detail back.
Let me know what you all think of this. It's different than what smelni's process got me but I like it. I like both, but I think I like this better. edit - I'm just going for contrast right now. I'll work on the color and mood after I get the contrast right.
This is the original after color correcting to make it neutral.
This is with additional color correction and using Magic Bullet Look Suite filter.
I didn't like how much the blacks were getting crushed by the Look Suite filter and losing all the detail of his hair. I added a Color Corrector 3-way filter, raised the black level and set the limiting option for luma so it would only affect mostly his hair and get the detail back.
Let me know what you all think of this. It's different than what smelni's process got me but I like it. I like both, but I think I like this better. edit - I'm just going for contrast right now. I'll work on the color and mood after I get the contrast right.
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