Equipment Perceptions

obi1jacobi

obi1jacobi

Active member
This is a topic people normally discuss regarding video gear, but now I'm wondering what your opinions are as far as audio...

I was communicating back and forth with Doug Oade about whether Id want to go with a modded pmd661 recorder or a modded fr2-le since they're in the same range and I've found that the pmd661 seems to fit the majority of my needs better considering I mostly shoot my own one man band and small crew projects (and the pmd's s/pdif input might be useful for me down the road when I can get a mixer)

My only concern, (and here is where I was hoping you all would chime in) was that if I wanted to hire myself out for sound recordist gigs, there would be the stigma that the pmd661 wasnt as "professional looking" as the fr2-le simply based on the size and shape of both recorders and I wouldn't be taken as seriously.

I've used the fr2-le before on set so I know its accepted, but that would honestly be the only reason for me to purchase it over the "super mod" pmd661.

Have you come across directors and other crew who have judged you based on the appearance of your gear? Or have we reached the age where there are so many tools that can get the job done, that all that really matters is the quality of the final product?
 
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Interesting that your question is about gear. How many times have a read ads for sound that asks for a list of your gear, but doesn't has for references from others you've worked with. Since I have a day job and do this on the side, here's what I've decided.

I will buy gear based on the following order:

1. Ability to do the job
2. Resale value in order to upgrade
3. Industry acceptance

Having worked in pro sound for many years, my experience is that the right gear in the wrong hands will result in crap.

Lesser tools in more capable hands will often pleasantly surprise.

I may have missed some jobs with this attitude, but I have run into far too many "producers" and "directors" who get so caught up in gear, the miss the art and craft of film. It is the art and craft of the work that keeps me wanting to improve.
 
Thanks for your response, gpforet. In my book, that is a good order to base gear buying decisions. Your #2 is an important point. Audio gear seems to be able to hold up its value far better than video, but I also try to view all my purchases through the lens of how they fit in my kit.

Then again with recorders, unlike microphones, would one really need a Zoom H2, Fostex FR2LE and a Sound Devices 702? I'd probably be selling the fostex to get to the Sound Devices.

Back to my original topic though, should I be surprised that the Oade Brothers mentioned that many buyers do go for the FR2LE over the PMD661 simply because of its shape/size?
 
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I'm with "gpforet". I would rather not work for somebody who thinks they know better than I do what gear I should use. It is an early warning indicator of trouble.
 
Fostex has inputs/outputs on the sides of the unit and is better suited for film/video location/bag use.
Marantz has the inputs on the bottom and is typically used for radio journalists and the like.
 
From my experience, other crew members aren't at all concerned about the gear in my bag. Give the director a set of headphones so they can hear what you're doing. If they like what they hear, you're golden. These days it seems like the quality of the recorder takes a back seat to the quality and number of wireless systems you have.
 
BRH said:
Fostex has inputs/outputs on the sides of the unit and is better suited for film/video location/bag use.
Marantz has the inputs on the bottom and is typically used for radio journalists and the like.
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This is kinda sorta true. But you arrange your bag the way that works for you so it doesn't really come into it. The 661 IS used more for radio but that has a lot to do with size and $. I have a Black Audio Devices mic pre designed specifically for film work and it's I/O are on the bottom. In film your not going to be getting at the inputs all that much anyway.

However appearances have some impact, more than they should. But if you have the 661 in a portabrace bag (or anything that looks like it wasn't your girlfriends purse before you got the gig) and you act professional that should get you over the first hurtle. The second one requires you produce the goods.
 
A real professional film sound recordist will normally use a Sound Devices recorder - the 788T seems to be he most popular, with the 702 being the minimum - but the 704 is about x4 the price of the FR2-LE (difference bay not be so bad in the USA as the SD is a US product and more expensive in Europe).
 
John Willett said:
A real professional film sound recordist will normally use a Sound Devices recorder - the 788T seems to be he most popular, with the 702 being the minimum - but the 704 is about x4 the price of the FR2-LE (difference bay not be so bad in the USA as the SD is a US product and more expensive in Europe).
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? Actually if your talking production in the US your probably more likely to see a DEVA on a show with a budget. In Europe you will find a lot more Cantar's and Nagra's. For production SD is more the Apple not the Microsoft.
 
On the production side of things here around the SF Bay Area, lots of producers and directors would require you to give them a list of your equips, maybe a demo reel, and/or references. If it's their first time working with you and have never heard of ya, they'll be asking for something. If it's a referral, maybe. Past working relationships doesn't matter any longer because they've worked with you before and know that you could achieve great results. Now it's a matter of keeping up or giving them more than expected.

When I started, equipment was the only thing on my mind. Without having equipment makes you unable to work. No work means no experience. So I researched, asked, and listened. While I did spring for some equipments, they weren't the better gear that I wanted. So I worked with what I had and made the most out of them. It's always good to buy once and not twice before you begin regretting your first purchase, but you shouldn't look at it that way as long as you made some progress with your first purchase.

The Archer and arrow game. Goes both ways. You need arrows to start you off to become an archer. Once you've become a better archer, you get better arrows. When you're a veteran archer, you need the most crafted arrows to perform your best out in the field. Now you're limited by your resources, but you still have the skills and techniques to perform constant results. So what happens when you have beaten up equipments? You're still able to get almost the same quality with new equipment right? No worries here.

I've had several occasions where the director and producer have never seen a sound cart before, vice versa for a bag rig. They would ask if you mainly work in a recording studio because of the mixing console on the cart. Ask if you work with newscrews because you have a bag rig and it's a film production set!

Never let anybody tell you how to do your job properly.
 
i feel i've got a fairly middle/lower end kit: psc m4 mkII, fostex fr2le, 3 G2s, me66, oktava... but i was at a high end production facility a few weeks ago working with a different company that rented their studio, and the studio owner came in after the shoot to chit chat and stuff with us. saw my sound bag(pegz2) and my gear and wanted my contact info. i know some of the other sound guys he works with and they have much better gear, but he saw some of the stuff we shot, and now i'm doing a gig with them in a few weeks. so i wouldn't necessarily say that my gear got me the gig.
 
Noiz2 said:
This is kinda sorta true. But you arrange your bag the way that works for you so it doesn't really come into it. The 661 IS used more for radio but that has a lot to do with size and $. I have a Black Audio Devices mic pre designed specifically for film work and it's I/O are on the bottom. In film your not going to be getting at the inputs all that much anyway.

However appearances have some impact, more than they should. But if you have the 661 in a portabrace bag (or anything that looks like it wasn't your girlfriends purse before you got the gig) and you act professional that should get you over the first hurtle. The second one requires you produce the goods.
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Thanks for all your responses thus far. I've been thinking along these lines as well. Since in my particular situation the oade modded pmd661 will get me through this transition period where I cant possibly afford a SD702, I just really need to get a pro bag for it and I doubt people will even bother me. The FR2LE's only benefit for me at the moment is the inputs on the left and the more traditional shape/size.

Most of my sound gigs will come from directors who already know my work, so I may take Noiz' advice here.


Personally, as far as microphones, I've never had anyone ask me what I was using since it's always in a shockmount/blimp of sorts.
 
Noiz2 said:
? Actually if your talking production in the US your probably more likely to see a DEVA on a show with a budget. In Europe you will find a lot more Cantar's and Nagra's.
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Actually - virtually every professional sound recordist I speak to now has a Sound Devices 788T.

Cantar's are superb, very French and very expensive.

The Nagra VI is more for those who want the absolute quality.

Deva is not so well respected over here - superb user control and pretty good computer side, but quite a bit to be desired on the analogue side.

Personally I chose the Nagra VI - my second choice would be the SD, maybe a Cantar if was not for the price - but never, ever a Deva I'm afraid.



Noiz2 said:
For production SD is more the Apple not the Microsoft.
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:laugh: Maybe - but seeing as most sound recordists in the UK run around with iPhones and Macs that is why they now choose SD as the standard. :laugh:
 
Interesting. Over here DEVA definitely has a market share in big budget productions. But it's strictly a cart machine, I guess one could cary it but that would be VERY uncomfortable. Cantar looks really cool but has almost zero presence in the US. You do see some NAGRA's, a place I work a bunch has one and it's great (though a bit heavy). I know a lot of FX recordists have the SD boxes. Personally I love the quality but find them a bit small and hard to get around. If the 7xx two and four track units were closer to the size of the old DAT's (or marantz) then I would like it better. But I didn't get one because at the time I couldn't afford it, SD was #1 on my list.

Of course another other hunk of the production "recorder" market is software. Metarecorder and BoomRecorder both get a fair amount of use in med. to big productions. At leas on this side of the pond.

I'm glad to hear that SD has a bigger share than I thought. They are a great company to deal with.

I thought England was still using the Sinclair's 8~) (I used to own a ZX81)

Actually I thought it was much more PC/Windows because of import taxes making Mac's quite expensive.

John Willett said:
Actually - virtually every professional sound recordist I speak to now has a Sound Devices 788T.

Cantar's are superb, very French and very expensive.

The Nagra VI is more for those who want the absolute quality.

Deva is not so well respected over here - superb user control and pretty good computer side, but quite a bit to be desired on the analogue side.

Personally I chose the Nagra VI - my second choice would be the SD, maybe a Cantar if was not for the price - but never, ever a Deva I'm afraid.





:laugh: Maybe - but seeing as most sound recordists in the UK run around with iPhones and Macs that is why they now choose SD as the standard. :laugh:
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Yea if you consider all the reality programming, documentry stuff out there
that happens on a daily basis I have to think Zaxcom isn't even in the same
ball park with such a small % of cart based film jobs going on.
Not to mention I've seen a lot of Cart based mixers with a Deva AND
a SD backup on the same cart.

My own opinion and reason I went with a 744 and then to a 788
is for the money nothing comes close to quality and function.

The only machine I think sounds better is a Cantar
but I'm not impressed with the functionality compared to what you can do
with the 788T and for twice the cost...not for me.


I have NEVER listened to a movie and been able to point out
what recorder it was mixed on. NEVER. Its just not a factor.

I can however listen to movies and tell what mic they are using a lot of the time.
Point being, there are other factors in a signal chain that is going to
effect outcome more in my opinion.
 
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