EOS 5D MK II workaround: Converting 30p into 24p/25p

ESTEBEVERDE said:
Thanks!

Yes, that is what I was asking.

What does it mean in minutes?
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Twixtor is very similar to After Effects 'time warp' - both run painfully slow on my Mac (not the latest/greater but still no slouch @ Dual 2ghz G5).

Depending on the content of the frame rendering out a 30 second piece - stretched from 15 seconds to 30 seconds for instance - can take an hour or so.

These pixel motion algorithms are not perfect, but very useful for short pieces and repair work - But I don't see this as a viable way to treat all your footage, and to attempt to convert, let's say, two hours of footage using this method would be crazy (ish).

Go to the Twixtor website and download the demo to get an idea weather this would work for you.

http://www.revisionfx.com/products/twixtor/downloads/

Twixtor works as a plug in for Adobe After Effects, Adobe Premiere, Apple Final Cut Pro HD, Apple Shake, Autodesk Combustion, Autodesk IFF Systems, Softimage|XSI, Avid Systems and Eyeon Fusion.
 
So If we roughly say these programs, using a last generation computer, would need one hour to convert one minute of footage that would mean you could convert a video clip within 3 to 4 hours and a whole feature film in an extended weekend ( about 4 days) - while you can hang around on a couple of parties ;-)

This doesn't seem to be the most comfortable workaround but it is doable, at least. One could edit the whole footage on a 30p timeline and would have to convert the finished work, only.

If the result was convincing - and only then - I wouldn't hesitate to do the conversion at leats If I don't have to produce that way a steady stream of longer footage.
 
If Canon won't add 25p to the new firmware we'll have to work out how to convert 30p. Converting in Twixtor takes hours just for a clip of some minutes, it's really not an option.

But in another thread I heard someone say he uses 30p running at 24p and even improves his footage. I thought that was a great idea. Sound would be a problem of course, but solvable.
 
I know one thing..twixtor is not the way to go..dont get me wrong, its great but like timewarp for ae it can give a ripped effect as it tries to interpolate time if you dont put hours of work into each cut.
Great tool...wrong job.

I say hassle canon more.
 
Chris_TC said:
How is sound solvable? Also, 20% slow-motion will probably look strange in most situations.
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I think it will look strange in some situations, but not most. I think it gives a cinematic feel, but that's just my opinion.

And sound is solvable by slowing it down by 20% and raising the pitch by 20%. I think that's a matter of testing and getting the perfect amount of slowness that exactly fits the pictures. People from hv20 have shot 30p.
 
dual said:
I think it will look strange in some situations, but not most. I think it gives a cinematic feel, but that's just my opinion.

And sound is solvable by slowing it down by 20% and raising the pitch by 20%. I think that's a matter of testing and getting the perfect amount of slowness that exactly fits the pictures. People from hv20 have shot 30p.
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While this might be a solution for certain purposes it definitely doesn't quit the flicker in 30p footage when shooting in the 50Hz world. The more I dig into the issue the more it seems to me that the only solution, for Europe at least, is to be able to shoot at 25p.
 
dual said:
And sound is solvable by slowing it down by 20% and raising the pitch by 20%.
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Well, the pitch would have to be raised by [(1 / (1-0.2)) - 1] = 25% I think.
But regardless of that, have you ever tried it?
If it works well, then why do PAL DVD distributors speed up movies to 25fps but leave the audio untreated, resulting in a higher pitched soundtrack?
 
Chris_TC said:
Well, the pitch would have to be raised by [(1 / (1-0.2)) - 1] = 25% I think.
But regardless of that, have you ever tried it?
If it works well, then why do PAL DVD distributors speed up movies to 25fps but leave the audio untreated, resulting in a higher pitched soundtrack?
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No, I haven't tried it and I don't know if it works well. It's an idea and seems less of a problem than converting the video. We all agree that 30p sucks, no doubt about it! :thumbup:

I know that it works though, I've done it several times during editing other things, not 30p though. I guess the distributors don't pitch the sound because it's a complex digital process. Moreover it probably will make it sound less perfect, and a 4% increase of speed doesn't make pitch noticably different.
 
dual said:
No, I haven't tried it and I don't know if it works well. It's an idea and seems less of a problem than converting the video. We all agree that 30p sucks, no doubt about it! :thumbup:

I know that it works though, I've done it several times during editing other things, not 30p though. I guess the distributors don't pitch the sound because it's a complex digital process. Moreover it probably will make it sound less perfect, and a 4% increase of speed doesn't make pitch noticably different.
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4% is less than half a semitone, so you are not likely to notice the pitch shift.

"distributors don't pitch the sound because it's a complex digital process" - they don't do it because they are lazy and no one will notice ! :) For a living I write music for TV ads, some often go to film and they just pitch it down a little - but it is easy (trivial even) to time stretch audio whilst retaining the same pitch.
 
Procedure to get 24p dialogue scene from 30p camera:

1. Record all dialogue, audio only. Edit into a complete audio-only scene.

2. From that master audio scene, create a version that is sped up to 125%.

3. Performers rehearse with this 125%-speed audio scene until they can lip-sync to it as if it is a song.

4. Shoot the scene MOS, with the performers lip-syncing to playback of the 125%-speed audio track. (I.e., shoot as if it is a music video.)

5. Use that 30p footage on a 24p timeline with the regular-speed master audio scene under it.

6. If your reaction to steps 1 through 5 was not, "Damn, that sounds like fun," STOP NOW. YOU ARE DONE WITH THIS SURVEY.
 
BrianF said:
Procedure to get 24p dialogue scene from 30p camera:

1. Record all dialogue, audio only. Edit into a complete audio-only scene.

2. From that master audio scene, create a version that is sped up to 125%.

3. Performers rehearse with this 125%-speed audio scene until they can lip-sync to it as if it is a song.

4. Shoot the scene MOS, with the performers lip-syncing to playback of the 125%-speed audio track. (I.e., shoot as if it is a music video.)

5. Use that 30p footage on a 24p timeline with the regular-speed master audio scene under it.

6. If your reaction to steps 1 through 5 was not, "Damn, that sounds like fun," STOP NOW. YOU ARE DONE WITH THIS SURVEY.
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this would kill a movie
 
BrianF said:
Procedure to get 24p dialogue scene from 30p camera:

1. Record all dialogue, audio only. Edit into a complete audio-only scene.

2. From that master audio scene, create a version that is sped up to 125%.

3. Performers rehearse with this 125%-speed audio scene until they can lip-sync to it as if it is a song.

4. Shoot the scene MOS, with the performers lip-syncing to playback of the 125%-speed audio track. (I.e., shoot as if it is a music video.)

5. Use that 30p footage on a 24p timeline with the regular-speed master audio scene under it.

6. If your reaction to steps 1 through 5 was not, "Damn, that sounds like fun," STOP NOW. YOU ARE DONE WITH THIS SURVEY.
Click to expand...

lol!
 
BrianF said:
Procedure to get 24p dialogue scene from 30p camera:

1. Record all dialogue, audio only. Edit into a complete audio-only scene.

2. From that master audio scene, create a version that is sped up to 125%.

3. Performers rehearse with this 125%-speed audio scene until they can lip-sync to it as if it is a song.

4. Shoot the scene MOS, with the performers lip-syncing to playback of the 125%-speed audio track. (I.e., shoot as if it is a music video.)

5. Use that 30p footage on a 24p timeline with the regular-speed master audio scene under it.

6. If your reaction to steps 1 through 5 was not, "Damn, that sounds like fun," STOP NOW. YOU ARE DONE WITH THIS SURVEY.
Click to expand...

Or . . . .

1. Film at 30 and put this footage onto a 24p timeline.

2. Pitch shift the audio up to the correct pitch.
 
I'm shure somebody will invent a hack so the camera will output 24/25p for us Pal users.
Remember barry green's frame rate hack for the hvx200 ??

Or maybe we can take a feed from the Hdmi out port (is this hot (live) during capture?)
and put it trough an external recorder into a 25p container ?

Anybody ??
 
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