Entry level recorder + mixpre or Better recorder without a mixer?

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kevinkt

Active member
For lower noise and better audio, should I get the mixpre + an entry level recorder (tascam dr-100), or maybe a better recorder, say a Marantz PMD661? Also my main focus would be dialogue.

The question is also about cost vs quality. The mixpre + recorder is about 1000, while the marantz is only about 600. Is the extra 400 really going to make that much of a difference in my audio?
 
Try a Tascam 680 for $800. Try before you buy :) There are so many boxes available, you really need to audition them, but I wouldn't buy two boxes instead of one unless there is a really good reason to.
 
The Tascam HDP-2 is supposed to have decent preamps. I have a MixPre and the pros are that you can feed just about any recorder with it so as you move up you can keep your front end. THe con is you can just about buy the tascam for the price of a MixPre.
 
Noiz2 said:
The Tascam HDP-2 is supposed to have decent preamps. I have a MixPre and the pros are that you can feed just about any recorder with it so as you move up you can keep your front end. THe con is you can just about buy the tascam for the price of a MixPre.
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The only thing that I question about your statement is what is the benefit of "keeping your front-end" if there is no need for the front-end with the tascam (that's what I assume you're implying, that the tascam is good enough without a mixer).
 
DrDave said:
Try a Tascam 680 for $800. Try before you buy :) There are so many boxes available, you really need to audition them, but I wouldn't buy two boxes instead of one unless there is a really good reason to.
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Where and how can I try before I buy?
 
For me the advantage from a mixer like the SD besides the cleaner pre-amps are, well it´s made for live mixing. Trying to adjust levels on a Zoom or sth alike just isn´t as nice as on a SD mixer. (I´m shure many Zoom or dr-100 users will beg to differ here though...).
That being said, I was in the same boat and decided against the mixpre + dr-100 option, because it was a) above my budget and b) I don´t like the small scale on the mixpre, especially compared to the SD302s which I usually work with and c) because I wanted at least 3 channels.

So I went with the Edirol R-44. It still is a compromise, but adjusting sound is similar to using a SD or SQN and I can feed up to four G2/3s, which sometimes is necessary in corporate video/ENG situations. I like it so far, besides some things I still have to figure out when trying to hook it up to a HVX or sth...
But for separate sound recording with HDSLRs it´s perfect so far.
 
DrDave said:
Try a Tascam 680 for $800.
Click to expand...

The 680 is really only good for people who are on a budget that need to record over four isolated tracks simultaneously. If that description doesn't fit you, then there are better options out there.

Personally I would rather use a Mixpre and a less expensive recorder, but I like to set the gain structure on the mixer and ride the faders during recording. You can't do that when you just have a recorder. But if you're not as much of an audio person, just having the recorder will be a more simplified situation, which could be better.
 
Unless you need multiple tracks (ie more than two) I would buy a modest recorder and the best mixer I could afford. Many of the portable recorders are more oriented towards music than video, and will lack many features you would prefer to have for video like controls oriented for bag use and poor mixing controls. If you buy something like a SD302, the only thing your recorder will be doing is just capturing the audio; all audio control will be be handled by the mixer. You won't need the extra features of a music oriented recorder, nor the pre-amps, or atleast the pre-amps will be turned way down using the line in from the mixer. Do make sure the recorder does have a line in option.

I believe this will give you the most versatility. I own the SD302 and a DR-100 and it is a great combo, though the DR-100 doesn't really work in a bag.

Must my opinion

Grant
 
+1 on using a mixer.

With a MixPre, you get awesome optical limiters on both the input and output, real low cut filter with 2 options of 80hz and 160hz, real knobs you can turn on the fly, great level meter, and you can generate a tone to calibrate any recorder, be it a camera or an audio recorder. MixPre is only sending out a LINE level signal (no mic level), so whatever you record to must be at line level. With the tone it sends, you put that tone into the recorder/camera and set that recording level to -20db. After that your signal is virtually unclippable. So you could feasibly get a Zoom H1 for 99.00, and a MixPre. Go out of the 1/8' "Tape Out" of the mixPre - into the "Line In" of the H1 and have a great sounding recording. Take a line out from the Zoom back into the mixPre, and you can monitor everything from the MixPre. No need for software based lowcut, level control, or limiters that don't sound good.

I think the suggestion for the DR-680 is viable because it's much cheaper, and better sounding than the R-44 out of the box, and only 100.00 more than the MixPre/H1 solution. Both the R-44 and DR-680 have nicer preamps than the DR-100 or the Zoom H4n. STILL - the best way is to use a mixer (like the MixPre) and use a recorder as a "bit bucket" to simply catch the recording, bypassing all of it's cheap pres and gimmicky limiters. Yes you can get away with just a recorder like the DR100 or H4N, but there is a good degree of likelihood that you could get something wrong and distort your signal, or have to deal with the fact that the H4N does not have individual level control for each track. It's all about what your budget is, and the level of professionalism you want to bring to this job, and of course the many jobs that will come after this job. You want things to work with ease and reliability on the set because you really look lame when you are holding up everything playing with a menu on a consumer recorder.
 
kevinkt said:
The only thing that I question about your statement is what is the benefit of "keeping your front-end" if there is no need for the front-end with the tascam (that's what I assume you're implying, that the tascam is good enough without a mixer).
Click to expand...

Chadfish kind of said it but. The Tascam is OK, the MixPre preamps are great (IMHO). Also you get tone, fantastic limiters, meters you can see anywhere.
And as I said you get a front end you know and can trust, you can be less picky about your recorder. When the Tacsm breaks and you have to borrow a Zoom, you still have great preamps, etc. The MixPre can make even a MiniDisk recorder sound good. You can use it as the front end for direct to camera, though DSLR's still have a trashy audio section so I should probably say "video camera", and get much better control and sound than you would otherwise.

The biggest audio failing of most inexpensive recorders and camcorders is the front end. Most camcorders do a fine job of recording it's the crappy electronics the suppies WHAT they record that makes them sound bad. So if you have your own front end you have a lot more flexibility with the other equipment.
 
I should add that I own, and like the MixPre quite a bit. But there are other quality Mic Pres out there that are also fine. And it's not really a "mixer", it's a two channel Mic Pre with benefits and some basic channel routing.
Beyond two channels though the price for quality takes a steep step up.
 
For narrative film work, would there ever be an instance where you would need the R-44's four channels? I'm curious about the Oade Brother's "super-modded" version which seems to be designed (or rather, redesigned) for my purposes.

If my needs are a dual system audio setup primarily for dialogue, what is the best mixer/recorder combo to be used in conjunction with a boom?
 
Like Chadfish I did a huge amount of looking around before settling on the Mixpre and Zoom. Why? Because I can use the Zoom on it's own, and/or use the mixpre without the zoom straight into an XLR or non XLR camera giving me control (I own both an HMC150 and a T2i and believe me, you need a mixer like the Mixpre for both of those!). I 'back up' the recording on the zoom and marry it back with Pluraleyes if I need to. Chadfish's reasons are all valid ones, and I use the tone every time I go out. I record tons of dialogue, have 30+ hours in the can (only used 15 minutes) on my video "Voices of the Strait" where I shifted to Mixpre half way through. You can hear the difference between some of my interviewees with a low level of hiss present on a naked feed to a HMC150 and then the feed through the Mixpre is clean as can be. It's a bit more bother (spend the money on a case for the Mixpre and put the zoom in there too). Recently, I was taping a concert in a small club, and mounted the Zoom in the perfect spot on it's own, mixed the sound for my 150 through the Mixpre (keeping my hands off the camera for control) and then walked around shooting handheld with the T2i and a shotgun mic. Worked like a charm, and I had three audio feeds to choose from. Unfortunately for that night, none were off the board, and the club sound guy did not do a good job. But it worked ok, but won't be a keeper for the musicians. So yes, I love this setup and like it better than just going with a Marantz, even modded. If the deck dies or becomes obsolete (not likely anytime soon) I still have the mixer, and vice versa. (I might eventually want a 3 or four channel mixer). There is a Sony (like the Zoom) that is a bit more expensive than the Zoom, and if you need superb audio quality beyond the Zoom's ability, you might check it out. I can't remember the model number but do some Google searches for comparisons of Sony and Zoom. That's what I had to do. Still need the mixer though.

By the way, a buddy has the Edirol, and I've used it. I like it but it seems a lot bigger though it's not really. I prefer the SD cards to the larger cards, and they are compatable with my cameras, so I don't need to buy different cards that go obsolete. If I go replace a 8GB card on the camera, I can move it to the Zoom. My buddy uses the Edirol in his studio and trucks it to concerts, so it's just another piece of gear. I need to stay lighter than that as I usually work solo.

As to a boom, I use a Gitzo and run the mic to the Mixpre (could do so on any of them). Using the smaller Mixpre I can put it's pack next to the camera with no hassles. And it has a rain shield on the back so I can see my levels in any weather. Or I (or a sound person) can wear the pack and manage the boom. Sometimes I just mount the boom over the subject. No problem

http://www.vimeo.com/12452315 Voices of the Strait Shot on HMC150, Mixpre, Audio Technica mics, FCP for editing (though it could have as easily been Vegas).
 
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I have the mixpre always using with hvx200
Now with 60D I'm testing mixpre + tascam dr-100 sound perfect sound no noise but the tascam here cost 400 euro that's 529 dollar..I will bring it back
So I'm gone try cheaper model tascam dr-07 somebody any experience ?? or other cheap recorder with mixpre please advice me
 
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