Endemic fraudulent camera listings on Ebay

A

aly324

Well-known member
Perhaps like many of you I check for camera deals on ebay regularly, and have noticed over the past 6 month or so a surge in fraudulent listings. I am both surprised by the amount and by their crudeness, and I don't understand why Ebay is not doing more to stop them. For one thing Ebay can refine its fraud reporting mechanism to allow users to specify their suspicions, instead of sending a generic report.

On the Sony F3 forum several people have noted fake F3 listings (I myself have actually bid on one, just to bust the fraud). This guy now has a bunch of cameras posted on ebay. They have the flag-raising "email me for a private buy it now price" jpeg files embedded in them. The self-contradictory descriptions have clearly been lifted word for word from other listings (e.g. identical descriptions and photos for *different* Sony FS100 listings). And the seller otherwise sells *gold nuggets.* And to judge from his/her other current listings, the account has only very recently been hacked. Perhaps the rightful owner isn't aware of the fraudulent listings and is still using the account normally.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/goldminr/m.html

What puzzles me are the following:

1) Why are fraudsters so lazy and/or stupid as not to make their schemes at least a bit convincing?
2) Why do some people actually fall for it? (I guess they're like the Nigerian scams--the lowest common denominator of scams. Part of me kind of thinks the victims really need to be taught a lesson.)
3) Again, why Ebay isn't doing more to stop them?
 
It's been going on for a few months with cinema lenses too.

Basically, the fraudsters have noted the value that certain items go for... if they're small and expensive, they're good candidates for a scam.

All of the Ebay postings also hijack legit user's accounts... and that makes it seem (to some people) that they're OK. Obviously you (like me) see a jpeg with a gmail addy and just laugh as we know it's a fraud... but some people (in search of a bargain) are blinkered by a deal that's offered - and that's the art of teh scam/fraudster.

I'm fed up of reporting to Ebay and seeing that they sometimes take 2 days to remove an item. I often send a mail to the real seller now - as it's faster and they often don't know they've been hacked - as target accounts are either those that have been dormant for a log tome - or those with a massive turnover of sales (easier to hide).

There was a recent thread on this over at Reduser - http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?91038-Lomo-Anamorphics-Too-Good-to-be-true
 
Ebay will terminate a listing the instant it's pointed out to them. I contacted one of these guys, offering to sell a Sony F35 for just $2,000 "buy it now", which is clearly a scam. But he offered significant assurances that the entire transaction would be conducted through ebay "to protect us both". I was curious how this would work so I told him I'd buy it; he sent a legit-looking invoice from a fake ebay account, which I of course verified by checking in ebay to see if anything had been processed through it, which it hadn't, it was just a fraudulent scammy email telling me to wire-transfer him. So I ignored it. He wrote back a few hours later and said "did you get the invoice?" I said "I have received nothing from ebay." He said "Check your spam folder, it should definitely be there." I said "Oh, if you mean your fraudulent scam invoice, yeah, I got that -- I was just saying that I haven't received anything FROM EBAY."

He disappeared.

So that's how the scam works, they make you think it's going through ebay and that you'll be entitled to buyer protection, but you most definitely aren't, it's just a scam scam scam, no matter how official-looking the scam invoice is.

The #1 rule applies always: if they ask you to contact them outside of ebay, it is a SCAM, full-stop, no two ways about it.
 
EDIT: I don't mean to contradict Derek's experience. I don't know how quickly ebay removes the scam listings. I only know that in the one I experimented with (which I did not report), they erased it before the scammer could even send me his fake invoice. So I found it, wrote to the scammer, got a response, and before he could send a fake invoice, ebay had already removed the listing. So I assumed (there's that word... sorry 'bout that) that they remove them quickly. Perhaps in this instance they did, perhaps in others they take a lot longer.

I didn't report the scammer because I didn't want to tip him off that I was on to his scam. I did, however, "ask a question" of the account holder, which should have alerted him/her that their account had been hijacked; perhaps that's how the listing got terminated so quickly?

I still say report scam listings to ebay when you find them, and spread the word as to rule #1: if they ask you to contact them outside ebay, it is always a scam.
 
Barry - no problem :)

I think the Reduser link is quite similar to the method you experienced... plus (it would seem) they even had some type of fake live help.

It really shows the lengths they'll go to :(

I see these scams on a daily basis... and continue to report... even though I agree that Ebay don't move that quickly.

To quote Hill Street Blues - 'Lets be careful out there'.
 
aly324 said:
2) Why do some people actually fall for it? (I guess they're like the Nigerian scams--the lowest common denominator of scams. Part of me kind of thinks the victims really need to be taught a lesson.)
Click to expand...

Yeah... I don't think so. Some people are not tech savvy or are just too trusting. Blaming the victim is never a good idea.
 
We listed a GoPro Hero 3 Black Edition with a bunch of custom items bundled with it - tripod mount, bacpac LCD, The Frame, and 32 GB SDHC card (SanDisk Class 10). Items not normally listed. Provided a description, and reason for selling so soon after buying.

Took four photos of items on our granite kitchen counter top.

Items sold on a Buy it now first day.

Next day, a guy in Poland listed the exact same items, with the exact same description, using OUR FOUR PHOTOS -- the ones on my kitchen counter top. Copied the listing including our exact language and reason for selling

His very first post.

I sent reports to eBay every day for five days. He sold the item for $300.00 more than we did, and then the next day, the listing was gone completely.

eBay finally caught up.
 
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Bottom line: If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Websites only have so many resources, they have to rely on others to help. Just like here.

If you find something that is just not adding up (especially in the marketplace) let a mod know. They can only be in so many places at one time.
 
It's not always a scam if it's conducted outside of Ebay. I've bought and sold things after a listing ended and paid/accepted payment through Paypal, receiving its protection, in addition to that of my credit card while purchasing. Communication usually begins while the listing is active and I don't believe it violates an Ebay policy as long as the transaction is conducted after the listing has ended -- not prematurely.

Certainly, a request for a wire transfer payment is always a red flag but an invoice sent through Paypal, confirmed by logging into your Paypal account and seeing the invoice there and paying with a credit card, is a simple way for a buyer and seller to save some money. The bottom line is not to click through an email; sign into your Ebay or Paypal account to verify authenticity.
 
If people hijack someone's account that implies they can login to it. Why wouldn't they simply change the email address linked to eBay so the legitimate account owner would be totally clueless?
 
What I would point out is the percentage of scams that use Ebay as the starting point, then go outside those parameters. Compare that to legit sellers that take that same route using Ebay. Few and far between. The vast majority that take that route are scammers. Can't be argued. Even Ebay (despite their COI) warns you up front that this is a "possibility". Scammers take advantage of people's distrust of "establishment" to prey on those individuals.
 
Basically, if you're buying or selling expensive camera equipment through ebay, take care. I've had my account hacked in the past, as well as running into a buyer who had hacked an account. In that case, I became suspicious, when I noticed the buyers Paypal address was in a different name and country to the ebay account. The buyer was asking me to Fed Ex the item asap and paid me over a 100 euros shipping, without even asking for an invoice. The money was held by Paypal as a charge back. I flagged it with ebay and Paypal, but it took then a few weeks to finally respond.

I think that they are starting to tackle this, but, buyer and seller beware. You can still get scammed within the Ebay system.
 
that is why I never use wire transfers....the only time I have used a wire transfer online was with a reputable arri dealer...Other than that, I have seen ebay listings removed soon after being reported.
 
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