Effective Communication

Jim Brennan

Jim Brennan

VHS Member Old Skool
I was recently taken to task by some members in a thread about correcting someone's grammar. My post was not intended to insult, but to point out a common mistake. I apologize if my post was misconstrued.

There have been some comments thrown around here lately about how important (or unimportant), it is to use correct grammar/spelling/punctuation in your posts. While I understand that learning proper English is not the purpose of this forum (and if you search my posts, you will find many mistakes in all of those categories), I do feel it is important to review your post and at least try to get those things right if at all possible. Here's why:

1) We are (or aspire to be) professionals. Just about everyone who visits this board either makes their living doing what we talk about, or wants to. Part of that is presenting a professional image. A good command of the English language can't hurt.

2) Filmmaking is about communication both in front of and behind the camera. Whether you are writing a script, trying to evoke an emotion, or trying to explain to a gaffer how you want a scene lit, you need to be able to communicate. I'm not saying that if you don't spell well, you can't light a scene, but I think that taking responsibility to get your point across in the most effective way, either here or anywhere else goes a long way.

3) This is an educational (among other things) board. People come here for a lot of reasons. But one of the main ones is to learn. It's a lot easier to understand what someone is talking about if they are using the proper spelliing and punctuation. That's why they were invented.

4) Not everyone who comes hear speaks or reads English as their first language. Lots of people come here, and if I am having a hard time understanding what someone means when I speak English, I am certain that that difficulty is compounded for readers whose native language is different.

Many of you may disagree, and you are entitled to that opinion. I just think that these things matter. They aren't more important than the content of a post, but they do say something.

And for those members who chose to make comments to me in that now-locked thread, I just want to say that:

Yes, I am successful. I do this full time and I love it.
No, I never finished college, despite numerous attempts.
I'd love to visit your mansion the next time I am out there.
 
I personally don't care how others spell, but I do know that your grammar and how you write makes an immediate impression on your those who read your post.
 
Good post. To add onto #4, those who are trying to learn English may have more trouble learning the language if many of us do not speak it properly.

Just to try to give a gentle reminder to everybody, I'm going to list a grammar rule that is often misused.

1) It's vs. its - It's means it is. Its refers to possession.



...and just to make myself clear, I realize that many people don't speak English natively or occasionally have to make quick posts. I understand. Peoples' intelligence should not be judged by the way they type online, but by the context and maturity of their posts.

:)
 
I agree to a certain extent... BUT, not completely.

Yes, we should use punctuation and spell to the best of our abilities, but pointing out things like "it's vs. its", "there vs. their vs. they're", etc seems a bit to analytical to me. If I know what someone is talking about, I'm fine with it. If you don't use any punctuation or use words like "cuz" instead of "because", I'm not going to take the time to decipher it, and I may ask the poster to clean it up, or I'll move along to another thread.

I think people would take offense to correcting those little things, and I don't think they're in the wrong. We're not being graded here. If I was in a hurry and mistakenly used a wrong spelling/word, I think I'd also take offense to the nitpicking.

That being said, repeated internet "slang", or purposeful laziness in posts has no merit here.

My .02
 
All valid points and I agree. (BTW - You spelled "spelliing" wrong on #3. lol :) )

I'm a stickler (do they still use that word?) for English as well. After all, languages (and other things) are suppose to evolve, improve, and develop over time. But laziness (which is at the root of most Internet verbiage) never caused anything to improve. I mean, since we're only using 10% of our brains as it is, shouldn't we make every effort we can to develop our brains by NOT taking shortcuts? That way we can eventually reach our true potentials.

That's my .02 cents. Although the dollar is down right now so my two cents is worth far less.

:(
 
For me it's not about making people feel bad, or correcting them for the sake of it. But "their" means something different than "they're" or "there". True, you can often figure out what someone means by the context, but you shouldn't have to. You wouldn't knowingly substitute "two" for "to", or "blew" for "blue" even though they sound the same, would you? We do these things because we feel rushed at times, but I believe that it usually happens because we honestly are unsure of what word to use. Sometimes they are typos, sometimes they aren't. For me, if I am using the wrong terminology I would want to be corrected...and I often am.
 
Jim Brennan said:
True, you can often figure out what someone means by the context, but you shouldn't have to.
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with all due respect to the english language, a misapplied iteration of there/their/they're or its/it's in an informal forum has never undercut my understanding of... anything. i've never needed to take even a moment to figure out the intent.
 
Grammar. I can care less on a forum.

I type with such an ADD vibe. My typos are rampant. I can run into Outlook and do a spell check , but why ? I spent 7 years of my life ensuring my emails had the correct spelling and syntax in the real world of business. My cash cow client made me a $100.000 a year alone.

If I was sitting across a table having a beer with you, I'd merely be myself; langauge, humour and total lack of refinement.

People that grammar or spell check on forums are asshats. If you're judging people based on these matters, then you're an insecure idiot. If you take the time to be correct, then that is cool as well. That is your style; but judging others on this ?

Film is an art. My beef is the lack of artists on the site. I want to represent the world in indiependent film, but aside from a handful of badmotherfuckers, there aint much much depth here.

Skate videos, weddings, instructional films.... Does anyone care about Mis-en-scene ? Does anyone care about becoming a master ? I obsesss about theory, the line, the visual langauge .... I can count on one hand and a half the other users that do here.

Spell checks and grammar ? Save it for the other foums that don't matter.
 
J.R. Hudson said:
Grammar. I can care less on a forum.

I type with such an ADD vibe. My typos are rampant. I can run into Outlook and do a spell check , but why ? I spent 7 years of my life ensuring my emails had the correct spelling and syntax in the real world of business. My cash cow client made me a $100.000 a year alone.
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Spellcheck is built into Firefox :)

I agree that some posts I read give me a headache. While I am far from perfect when it comes to spelling and grammar, I do my best to insure proper usage, and avoid excessive use of profanity. I often fail, but I try.
 
I think that sitting across from someone, having a beer is a much more effective way to communicate than on a web board. This cyber world is rampant with miscommunication because there is so little context. We all know what we mean, so we assume others do as well. I'm not talking about spellcheck and typos. I'm talking about caring enough about what you are saying to say it in an effective and understandable manner.

And for what it's worth, I obsess over all of those things too John. I work at them everyday precisely because they are also effective communication. And that's what being a filmmaker is about for me.

Don't know if I am on that hand and a half of yours though. :beer:
 
Capt Quirk said:
Spellcheck is built into Firefox :)

I agree that some posts I read give me a headache. While I am far from perfect when it comes to spelling and grammar, I do my best to insure proper usage, and avoid excessive use of profanity. I often fail, but I try.
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personally, i would have used 'ensure'.
 
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Good points

Como is the only one that gives me a headache due to his blatant lack of effort, but his enthusiasm is obvious so I chill usually

Jim, I know who obsesses over the art. It is most likely more than the handful in a half that I accuse of being here.

LOL Zak (Wiseass)
 
It's funny you should mention TheComo. I felt the same way- reading his posts was like rubbing broken glass in your eyes. Then I saw one of his recent posts, and it was well written. He's come a long way in a short time.
 
Capt Quirk said:
It's funny you should mention TheComo. I felt the same way- reading his posts was like rubbing broken glass in your eyes. Then I saw one of his recent posts, and it was well written. He's come a long way in a short time.
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Due to our nitpicking... :thumbsup:

I used to think he was a troll. He's certainly enthusiastic and is probably improving his skills at a faster rate than anybody else on this thread.

Regarding grammar and writing, it's really just how you were raised. My father told me I should be very conscious of my grammar, and it has stuck with me. There's a fine line between business and forums though, and I can certainly see the other side. It's all preference and no judgment should be passed for lack of proper English.

Ironically, I misspelled "judgment" on a school assignment and had points deducted (for those interested, I spelled it judgement; I believe this is the European way).
 
I guess on a forum I try to articulate myself the way I want to present myself, and if others just mess around, make typos etc I dont (notice the lack of punctuation in dont) really care about that at all. If someone makes a completely incoherent post thats posed as a question I may ask to reconfirm, or just totally ignore it.

If someone is inclined to pick up others mistakes, well I pretty much ignore that also. Each to their own etc.
 
bballplaya283 said:
Ironically, I misspelled "judgment" on a school assignment and had points deducted (for those interested, I spelled it judgement; I believe this is the European way).
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"That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!" :thumbsup:

This is more than "just a forum", it is a place where professionals gather to share knowledge, ideas, and network. Oh, and lots of bullshi**ing going on too ;) But how well do you receive somebody that doesn't make the effort to communicate clearly?
 
Capt Quirk said:
This is more than "just a forum", it is a place where professionals gather to share knowledge, ideas, and network. Oh, and lots of bullshi**ing going on too ;) But how well do you receive somebody that doesn't make the effort to communicate clearly?
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I think that's why this gets under my skin. My expectations for this place are pretty high. And those expectations are often exceeded. Maybe I take it all too seriously sometimes, but when I am on this site I feel like I am around pros. I guess I expect everyone to act that way.
 
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