Eeeek! Shooting DV on the HVX :D

S

StingrayPictures

Member
Ok, here's a scenario I didn't foresee...
Looks like I'm going to be editing a week long sporting event, the budget is tight and the two man camera crew is shooting DVCam. So I offer up the HVX as a third camera (because I'm also wanted to do a bit of shooting when I don't have tapes coming in) and the one camera guy says "Naw, sorry, it only shoots MiniDV on the tape end, not the same as DVCam because they record at different pitches on tape, so we'll have to rent another DVCam because we want to keep it all the same" (like it should matter, I'm the one dealing with the footage, not him) and I say "well it does record DV to P2 according to the manual because it is classifiying DV with DVCPro". The truth is, I've never recorded a single second of DVCPro25 or 50 on the HVX. What's the deal here? I'm sorry if this sounds elementary, I've really just been shooting and cutting HD off of the HVX for the last couple of years and never really use miniDV/DV anymore. The camera guy owns his own camera and has probably been shooting with it for a billion years, so I don't know who's right. It just seems ridiculous to me that you would be able to shoot "mini-DV"-DV to P2 and not just "DV"...I've tried to Google this stuff and nobody talks about it anymore...any help would be great!
 
Shooting sports? This should be a good chance to overcrank for slo-mo in HD, then do an in-camera downconvert to mini dv tape. DV tape will keep the overcrank and 16x9 look of the original HD footage.
I just shot several hours of hearings on Capitol Hill in DV on 4 16gb cards. I just kept on rolling while the news hounds were doing the tape cassette shuttle every half hour.
Never missed a beat.
 
MiniDV is DV, the only difference is the speed of the tape. DVCPro25 on P2 is DV with no tape, the same format they are using, but with higher reliability.

You could record to DVCPro25, kick it out to a DVCAM deck, and have the same thing on the same tape. Or you could use DVCPro50 and your footage would look better than theirs.
 
ProfessorU said:
MiniDV is DV, the only difference is the speed of the tape.
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No, actually, the only difference is the SIZE of the tape. DV and miniDV are identical, the only difference is that the DV cassette is the large full-size cassette, and mini-DV uses the small tapes. But the tape speed, the pitch, the data, everything is identical.

The tape speed difference comes in the comparison between DV and DVCAM. DVCAM is identical in video, but it runs the tape faster. That made it more dropout-resistant, and made it easier to shuttle around in a tape deck. And, DVCAM introduced "locked" audio, which the original DV didn't have. However, starting with the DVX and the JVC DV500, regular miniDV cameras got the ability to use locked audio too so -- the net result is that DV and DVCAM are absolutely identical in digital format.

DVCPRO25 is Panasonic's answer to DVCAM. Fundamentally, data-wise, it's identical (just like DVCAM is). The big difference between DVCPRO25 and DVCAM is the actual tape it's recorded onto (plus some data flags in the data stream... plus, if you're a PAL user, DVCPRO uses a different color sampling system than DVCAM does, but in NTSC they're the same.)

You could record to DVCPro25, kick it out to a DVCAM deck, and have the same thing on the same tape. Or you could use DVCPro50 and your footage would look better than theirs.
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Agreed.
 
StingrayPictures said:
I knew it!
So, what does it record in the tape drive? DV or MiniDV? (What speed?)
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DV and miniDV are identical. The only difference is the size of the cassette. The HVX uses miniDV.

DVCAM comes in small and large sizes too, and the tape runs faster.

I don't believe there are any DVCAM decks that won't also play DV tapes.
 
To be extremely precise: (I'm not infallible! But pretty certain...)

DV is video format (also known as DV25). MiniDV, DVCAM, DVCPro are kinds of physical tape recording systems that are used to put DV video on physical media. Once the data's in your computer, all the tape system differences disappear, and you have the same DV25 video.
 
The said camera op's original concern on this whole topic was that everything had to "be the same"...(though I'm the one going to be editing anyway, don't know why it would be his worry). So, again, as I've also never encountered this before, and for the sake of saying we were all shooting different SD formats:
If I have miniDV footage, DV footage, and DV Cam footage, and import it all into the good ol' "NTSC DV" timeline, I'm not going to have to render anything, am I? Again, sorry if this is elementary, I just don't really bother with DV anymore, and have been cutting mostly HD since acquiring Mac/FCP...

Convincing him that HVX DV footage is going to be the same format wise as his older Sony DV cam (which just shoots 4x3!) will be the difference between whether he will rent my cam or go and rent a third camera like his to make sure it's "all the same". I really don't feel like debating with him on his camera package that he personally owns and uses, I just want to convince him that the HVX DV footage will be just fine and that it will indeed be "all the same" (of course besides me having to crop the 16:9 stuff on the "C" camera to match the "A" camera...yes, I know)... :D
 
Sometimes it's just easier to let them have their way and just leave it... you know your right.. we know your right.. but trying to convince others who thinking they know can just be a pain... take the cash.. finish the job and move on...

Cheers
 
Man, I agree with Monkeyking. What a missed opportunity if you don't get to do some overcranking to P2 and then downconvert it.

My understanding was that the only reason for the larger DVCam tapes was that they are less prone to tracking errors when playing back on a transport other than what they were recorded on (not usually an issue with consumer camcorders). Wanting everything "all the same" is really a notion relating to linear editing on ancient tape decks. Once it's all in your NLE, does he think he can "see" any difference in pitch?

You could have someone make you a GUI with a button that says "HVX200 P2 to Sony DVCam platinum ultra" or something.

If he's unable to grasp the advantage of getting some great slow motion for his client, let him have his way, though. Let it be the difference between your productions and his in the future.
 
Why would you shoot 16:9 and crop it? You can shoot 4:3 with the DVX...

Will you be shooting progressive or interlaced? If you're shooting interlaced, the HVX is NOT the best cam to use. Rent the DVCam.
 
Ooh, Be prepared to lose your focus assist when you switch to DV. This was an interesting suprise for me on a recent project that had to be shot dv.
 
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