Editing DVCproHD - any updates?

Spartacus

Spartacus

Veteran
Edius still seems to be on the pole position and now edits all the HVX flavors, including PAL/25/50p.
But what about the others?
Adobe, Apple, Avid, what are they up to?
Any rumors or facts?
 
I dondt know exactly about Avid...but as far as i hear from Adobe and Apple, there wount be no "good" solution in the next month..maybe never(not sure if fcp will ever jump from beoved quicktime to .mxf).

So i think Edius is probably still the only "direct" solution, specially for us pal-users..!
 
This is sooooooooooo crazy!
How can anyone sell a camera, no major editing app (besides Edius) is able to edit!!!
What´s going on here?
Is this all a f***ing joke?
What´s next - a camera with a new recording medium you can`t buy anywhere?
Or what about making the 2nd HVX generation 19,348 Volt.
Can`t find a battery? Non of my business...
For now DV50 ain´t an option, but the only option for us I guess...
Any official word from Panasonic?
Jan, maybe...?
 
If you wanting native MXF editing only, then you are limiting yourself, which can explain the frustration. However all the HVX modes (PAL and NTSC) are supported by CineForm's products in either Vegas or Premiere Pro for editing, plus support for all the PC compositing apps (AE, Combustion, Digital Fusion, etc.) In exchange for native DVCPRO, you get much great flexibility and higher multi-generation quality. Read more here : http://www.cineform.com/products/HVX200Support/hvx200.htm and here http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=57522
 
MXF is an important step in getting away from proprietary video editing formats, and sooner or later everybody will support it. Those companies who don't adapt will eventually fade away...
 
Agreed, MXF is in our future too. But the reality of today is MXF is more proprietary than both AVI and MOV, simply add up the number of vendors that support each. Also think you are implying that the native DVCPRO-HD is the ultimate goal, however many will want more resolution and quality than that, so companies that target above camera formats will not go away, just go more high end. We are already making this move.
 
uuuummmmm - what about avid - it supports everything from the camera

EDIT - i dont know if this is true in PALland
 
David, all I'm saying is that while support for MXF in most NLEs is currently lacking, the situation will improve. Yes, the transition will be both painful and slow, and in the short-term it greatly complicates matters for anyone used to just capturing to an AVI or MOV container in the editor of their choice.

Barry Green made a point at the HVX Bootcamp in Los Angeles on Saturday that in hindsight is very obvious, but is something I missed completely. He was talking about support for the DVCPro codecs in the various NLEs, and he mentioned that he didn't think Vegas would ever have it, simply because it's a Sony product, and DVCPro is Panasonic technology. Somehow I never mentally connected the two and figured if there was sufficient demand for it, Vegas would add DVCPro support.
 
Spartacus said:
This is sooooooooooo crazy!
How can anyone sell a camera, no major editing app (besides Edius) is able to edit!!!
Click to expand...
Um, why don't you ask JVC and Canon that same question? JVC's been on the market a year, and no major NLE (other than EDIUS) supports its 24P mode. Canon's been on the market about 9 months, and I believe only EDIUS (and maybe Premiere) support its 24F mode.

Things take time. The JVC HD1 was on the market for TWO YEARS before FCP and Avid supported it.
 
Not sure what you mean. EDIUS Broadcast 4.0 supports just about every format from just about every camera. It supports everything a US HVX can do, everything a PAL HVX can do, everything the VariCam and the XDCAM-HD and JVC and Canon cameras do... EDIUS is probably the most format-aware NLE on the market.
 
I am going to start off with CineForm Connect HD in Vegas. Looks like the best option for me to get started, with the HVX on order, and as I progress, I may move to Prem Pro and use CineForm Prospect HD for 1080p 10bit work, and output thru a Xena (or a Decklink HD, if supported in the future?) to an HD-SDI deck/monitor. All this from 9-20mb/s data rate, a visually lossless codec, somewhat like the Avid DNxHD codec to my understanding. I can use a single SATA drive at those data rates. For fx, non realtime CC and multi-generational rendering/compositing of the DVCProHD source footage, you would not want to recompress to the DVCProHD often, or at all, imo. DVCProHD seems like a great 1st generation codec from the camera, however, I was not pleased with some recompression results experienced in the past. Just my opinion.

Placing a CineForm order this week, I hope it is as good as the info I have read and researched....
 
TylerD said:
I am going to start off with CineForm Connect HD in Vegas. Looks like the best option for me to get started, with the HVX on order, and as I progress, I may move to Prem Pro and use CineForm Prospect HD for 1080p 10bit work, and output thru a Xena (or a Decklink HD, if supported in the future?) to an HD-SDI deck/monitor. All this from 9-20mb/s data rate, a visually lossless codec, somewhat like the Avid DNxHD codec to my understanding. I can use a single SATA drive at those data rates. For fx, non realtime CC and multi-generational rendering/compositing of the DVCProHD source footage, you would not want to recompress to the DVCProHD often, or at all, imo. DVCProHD seems like a great 1st generation codec from the camera, however, I was not pleased with some recompression results experienced in the past. Just my opinion.

Placing a CineForm order this week, I hope it is as good as the info I have read and researched....
Click to expand...
Which software did you use for your recompression tests?
 
germanboy,

I was using FCP, 12 months ago. The footage was night timelapse, and the compression/artifacts on recompression after some CC work, back to DVCProHD codec was terrible. Different footage will yield different visual results, and certain night/dark footage can be a good test to break a codec, imo.

Have a look here: http://codecs.onerivermedia.com/

Go to: >> 4:2:2 C >> Apple DVCPRO HD 720p or Apple DVCPRO HD 1080i

Then click on each of the following and let it load into the buffer >> Source JPEG / Encode JPEC / 10x Generation & White Count.

Then click between the images, notice how the compression varies between Source, to the 1st generation Encode to the 10x Generation, etc?

For me, I like working in uncompressed and Cineform appears to be a great way to get near uncompressed HD with it's visually lossless codec, at uncompressed SD data rates.

http://www.cineform.com/technology/HDQualityAnalysis10bit/HDQualityAnalysis10bit.htm

I will do my own tests in due course. I hope this helps, each to their own view and experiences. :thumbsup:
 
Barry_Green said:
Um, why don't you ask JVC and Canon that same question?
Click to expand...
Because we own a HVX...
Barry, I get your point, but I don`t think a problem is solved by pointing out that others have problems too.
Besides people reporting noise issues and complaining about small chips, we bought the HVX and we bought the (imho) overpriced P2 cards.
And, as most here will agree, the camera produces beautiful images and working with P2 is easy!
No regrets here.
But when it comes to editing, the problems start.
I get Davids points for using Cineform.
Right now I would be satisfied with a native support for the HVX200e from Adobe and Apple.
Buying and learning a new app (edius) or buying an expensive plugin bringing along other problems (speed, extra/non original files) just annoys me.
 
Yes, but who is responsible for solving that? That's the question I'm asking.

If you want a solution that works BRILLIANTLY with the HVX, get EDIUS.

If you want to stick with FCP, point the finger at Apple. They make FCP, they're responsible for implementing features in it. They're the ones who are supposed to make it work right.

That's all I'm saying. How can it be Panasonic's (or JVC's or Canon's) fault if the editing program doesn't support it? ESPECIALLY when another editing program DOES support it? Look at EDIUS -- full native support for every frame rate and every mode the HVX does, and also full support for every mode the JVC does, and full support for every mode the Canon does. No other editing application can do that.

So the point is: if EDIUS can do it, why can't the others? It's their problem, not the camera manufacturer's problem...
 
Barry_Green said:
How can it be Panasonic's (or JVC's or Canon's) fault if the editing program doesn't support it? ESPECIALLY when another editing program DOES support it?
Click to expand...
Good question!

Barry_Green said:
So the point is: if EDIUS can do it, why can't the others?
Click to expand...
Again, good question!
But your arguments do not logically lead to a fault on the side of the software manufacturers.
I have no insight on whats going on behind the scenes there - have you?
So we could also ask why, if Panasonic is doing their best to help editing software manufacturers implement their format, only Edius fully supports it so far?
Why would eg Apple NOT want to be able to edit every professional format that´s out there?
But I don´t think we can answer this questions here for sure.
If Edius will be the only way to edit footage from our camera, this would mean our two editing stations (1 Mac/FCP, 1 PC/PP2) will become redundant.
Now that´s a big deal for most small companies.
Buying Edius or buying CineForm - both investments, I actually don´t want to make.
And I don´t like being forced to spend money on things I never wanted.
Tomorrow I´ll visit Adobes "Summerschool" and I´ll try to get some answers there...

PS Big thanks to David/CineForm and the guys from the DVXuser Canopus forum, they do their best to help us and show the quality of their products!
 
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