Editing 7Q footage

mainstreetprod

mainstreetprod

Veteran
I have an FS700 and eventually expect to get a 7Q for a project next year. I'm about to dump the '09 Imac and get a new one. I obviously need to upgrade from FCP 7 but want to stick with timeline based editing and don't want to make monthly "cloud" payments. That leaves Premiere CS6, possibly with no upgrade path, and Avid Media Composer. Thoughts on which direction to go?
 
mainstreetprod said:
I have an FS700 and eventually expect to get a 7Q for a project next year. I'm about to dump the '09 Imac and get a new one. I obviously need to upgrade from FCP 7 but want to stick with timeline based editing and don't want to make monthly "cloud" payments. That leaves Premiere CS6, possibly with no upgrade path, and Avid Media Composer. Thoughts on which direction to go?
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Adobe CC is going to be the winner if you're at all accustom to any of the Adobe platform. I realize you're concerned about "cloud payments," but it's a great system that keeps you updated as often as you like, which is great given the frequency of new technology/formats available. It's CC that's enabled us to suddenly add Sony Raw (.mxf) functionality, and it's CC that will update to allow CD's cDNG format to function.

Right now we all have Resolve as a necessary crutch to work with the DNGs, but it will really smooth over the workflow when Adobe is fully functioning.

I'll let someone else speak to the Avid workflow, but I think most are waiting on DNxHD options before avenues truly open up on that front. Meanwhile I assume you're stuck with the same Resolve -> Edit Format scenario we are with "CC."
 
Creative Cloud is the way to go. Look at it this way: Master Collection used to cost $2500+, then $799 upgrade every 1.5 years. Creative Cloud (includes everything Master Collection has) is $600/yr.

Over the course of 9 years, you'd pay $7294 with the old pricing, upgrading every year and a half.
With Creative Cloud, the same 9 years is $5400, and includes everything. Not to mention that because they've implemented Creative Cloud, they've added useful things like TypeKit (used to be a separate subscription-based service).

With the rate at which things are moving (cameras, codecs, plugins, etc.) I don't think you can afford to buy software the old way. Things change and you need your software to be actively changing, too. Buying a box and using the same version for 9 years isn't going to cut it anymore.
 
but don't forget: if you decide to cancel your subscription by what ever reason you will not be able to open / edit / export your work again. I have also been informed by vimeo that they discovered my login email address and password amongst stolen Adobe data. I lost a lot of faith into the company. It was not Adobe who informed me about the theft and suggested to change all passwords. It was vimeo.

I know that a lot of guys working for years with FCP 7 are having a mental blockade against FCP X. ;-) I found it worth a look. Maybe it's due to my background in still photography and due to a rather short liaison to FCP legacy I really liked it from the beginning. It still allows me being significant faster than with PP CS6. If you are talking about pricing: I paid 360,- € for FCP X, Compressor plus Motion for more than two years now. May be it's too cheap and people take it not for serious. It's different. If you don't expect being FCP 8 it's worth a look. It's simple at the first sight but mighty under the hood (my 2 cts, be sure I am no Apple fan boy!)
 
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If you plan on opening timelines of old projects a year or two after completion or beyond, then go the Media Composer route, the media management is bulletproof provided you understand and execute correctly. If your jobs are in and out, never to be re-cut again, then go the Creative Cloud using the 12 month Pre-Paid membership cards for sale, it's like $600/year for the entire collection, and no monthly credit card charges. Then as a backup, export xml of your timelines and keep track of your footage so you can import to another NLE down the road if you decide to get out of Adobe.
 
Clermond said:
but don't forget: if you decide to cancel your subscription by what ever reason you will not be able to open / edit / export your work again. I have also been informed by vimeo that they discovered my login email address and password amongst stolen Adobe data. I lost a lot of faith into the company. It was not Adobe who informed me about the theft and suggested to change all passwords. It was vimeo.

I know that a lot of guys working for years with FCP 7 are having a mental blockade against FCP X. ;-) I found it worth a look. Maybe it's due to my background in still photography and due to a rather short liaison to FCP legacy I really liked it from the beginning. It still allows me being significant faster than with PP CS6. If you are talking about pricing: I paid 360,- € for FCP X, Compressor plus Motion for more than two years now. May be it's too cheap and people take it not for serious. It's different. If you don't expect being FCP 8 it's worth a look. It's simple at the first sight but mighty under the hood (my 2 cts, be sure I am no Apple fan boy!)
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FCP X is a lot better than most make it out to be, our company cut quite a few projects on FCP X earlier last year, and we still use it occasionally, however I find it only really gets the job done for smaller, more open ended projects. Anything of a larger scale, or anything where it's been perfectly storyboarded and involves much more of a technically precise execution mixed with graphics, Premiere CC has been a much better tool. Particularly now that we can expect better cDNG integration.

I'm not sure how you were informed by Vimeo first, the Adobe data theft thing was BIG news that was widely covered, and they emailed everyone when it occurred. It's possible that email just wound up in your spam box. I don't believe Vimeo notified us until quite awhile had passed since the event itself.

Don't get me wrong, Adobe isn't perfect, between the data theft issue and a resulting customer service problem we had with them, I have issues with them, too. That being said, I think all of this worrying about CC is fear of change rather than a real concern. Of course things can change, a company could go out of business, etc... the reality is that if you're on a CC subscriptions, you have something like a month plus between the software connecting to Adobe and completely shutting down. That means if you need to close out of your subscription for some unfathomable reason, you can always take that month long opportunity to output XMLs.
 
Ted Herod said:
I'm not sure how you were informed by Vimeo first, the Adobe data theft thing was BIG news that was widely covered, and they emailed everyone when it occurred. It's possible that email just wound up in your spam box. I don't believe Vimeo notified us until quite awhile had passed since the event itself..
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You can trust me that I am reporting things as they happened not with the intension to blame Adobe.
My vimeo account was locked, here is the screenshot from dec 12, 2013. No note from Adobe.
Up to that I thought I's be on the safe side. I'll stay away from CC as long as it's possible and I know
from a big clients with dozens of CS6 licenses they also will

vimeo.jpg
 
Clermond said:
You can trust me that I am reporting things as they happened not with the intension to blame Adobe.
My vimeo account was locked, here is the screenshot from dec 12, 2013. No note from Adobe.
Up to that I thought I's be on the safe side. I'll stay away from CC as long as it's possible and I know
from a big clients with dozens of CS6 licenses they also will
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I understand you're reporting as it happened to you, however this issue happened to everyone (and not just CC users) who has an Adobe account. Emails went out to everyone and the news broke widely across the web in October. http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/oct/03/adobe-hacking-data-breach-cyber-attack

It seems more likely that Adobe's email was sent into a Spam box somehow, so you did not receive it. Vimeo was late to the game on that security breach, and actually forced a lot of us to change our passwords even when they were not the same as our Adobe passwords.
 
I personally use FCP X as my NLE of choice for all projects. I find that it suits my needs/editing style perfectly. I've done everything from small :30 spots to full hour broadcast specials with it. And the updates just keep improving it.

No, it's not FCP 7, but I couldn't go back to FCP 7 if I tried. On the two occasions in the past years I've had to go back, I've found the old workflows almost unbearable.
 
I was totally resistant to FCPX having used FCP for years. I was all set to switch to Premiere Pro which I found relatively easy to use but refused to subscribe in perpetuity after the introduction of CC. I then went back to FCPX and learnt to love it. I too use it for absolutely everything and find FCP7 now a clunkfest in comparison. Definitely worth another look.
 
Well, FCP X makes a lot of sense aside from the new "I movie" like interface, as it is inexpensive, has no monthly cost, and will be supported and upgraded, so I may have to break down and download a trial before I make a decision. Not sure I can learn to like it though.
 
mainstreetprod said:
Well, FCP X makes a lot of sense aside from the new "I movie" like interface, as it is inexpensive, has no monthly cost, and will be supported and upgraded, so I may have to break down and download a trial before I make a decision. Not sure I can learn to like it though.
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While the interface could be considered iMovie-like, I think that's just because it actually has a more polished UI than we're used to - the interface actually feels inviting and less complex. But don't let that fool you, the power underneath is extremely more advanced than iMovie, and is a welcome upgrade to this editor.

If you do decide to give it a go, I'd be happy to help out with any questions that pop up. Feel free to send a message or whatever.
 
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mainstreetprod said:
Well, FCP X makes a lot of sense aside from the new "I movie" like interface, as it is inexpensive, has no monthly cost, and will be supported and upgraded, so I may have to break down and download a trial before I make a decision. Not sure I can learn to like it though.
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If you are new to FCP X I can highly recommend to go through a tutorial (Lynda, Steve Martin/ripple training) or check the free episodes of macbreak studio http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL607BE2B2BFE9BE1A FCP X looks simple at the first sight but it's more powerful and mighty than you would probably expected

nevertheless there are some good reasons for premiere - an one of them is After Effects. If you shoot timelapse from a DSLR and merge single images to a video file FCP X is really cumbersome.
 
I was a very loyal M100 user, unfortunately that great editor is pretty much dead at this point.

I never liked FCP but I used it including v1 to V7 (I actually had a pre release V1, I worked for a VAR back then).

I still use AE and PSD an ILS all the time but after some really bad times with Premier I am just jaded.

So now FCPX comes along as M100 is dying, wow talk about saving money. M100 was always a grand or so every year for platinum updates & support.

At the is point I have completed about 30 jobs in FCPX. And I love it, way better than 7 and much better than M100. New learning curve -- Yes. But it i fast and great at organizing.

So I still pay Adobe for the CC master suite because of PSD and AE etc, I love Muse as well. But over 90 % of my new work is in FCPX. From 30 second spots to 1hr documentaries. I find if you wrap your brain around it it works different but really well.
 
The cloud isn't very appealing because I don't use AE or the other programs, just Premiere. I've never tried FCP X because it won't run on my '09 iMac - but the new iMac from B & H comes tomorrow so I'll download the trial and give it a whirl. Looked at a Youtube tutorial and must admit, it looks pretty easy to learn.
 
Well, I downloaded the trial and so far this has to be the most infuriating software ever devised. Spent hours fighting what turned out to be a known glitch, where transcoded files mysteriously turn red and unusable. Supposedly it appears upon an upgrade to Mavericks. Right now I'm trying to edit multi cam footage and am completely unable to switch cameras. Lovely.
 
mainstreetprod said:
Well, I downloaded the trial and so far this has to be the most infuriating software ever devised. Spent hours fighting what turned out to be a known glitch, where transcoded files mysteriously turn red and unusable. Supposedly it appears upon an upgrade to Mavericks. Right now I'm trying to edit multi cam footage and am completely unable to switch cameras. Lovely.
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I never ran into that " known glitch". I would spend a little time learning how to manage media. It is different but very simple. It is important not to move linked files, but better just to let FCPX contain all the files in the "library".

If used correctly FCPX realy shines in media management and organizing, but you have to accept the Apple way of doing it or you will have problems. There are many very good tutorials out there, like Lynda and Larry Jordan, Ripple etc. I would not go by just a tube vid. Most of these tutorials have a few free getting started vids. Manuals are good as well.

Remember "think different" sometimes it is actually better. But it may not be for everyone...

It works great for me.
 
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sheesh, I know I'm in the minority, here, but....
First off, I've edited on both PC's and Macs. My personal choice is a PC. So, honestly, I don't have much experience with FCP. But, on the PC platform, I've used Edius, Vegas Pro Premiere and Avid Media Composer. For my money, even tho' it's a bit pricey, the best NLE I've ever used is Avid's Media Composer. It's reliable, dependable, has great file and project management organization. I've had years of bad experiences with Premiere hanging, BSOD's, data loss, yadday yadda, difficult workflow, and Adobe's lack of product support. And now I have a real aversion to their CC concept. Avid has a very active and helpful customer forum. It has never let me down. The learning curve was steep, but, film school taught me how to be proficient with it. It works for me, every time, no hangs. I can't say enough for it's file management system. If you're working collaboratively with other editors, Avid Interplay is the only way to go. Once you get the hang of Avid, there's more shortcut keys and customizeable adaptibility than anything I've ever owned. The interface is completely customizeable and it interfaces with Resolve via AAF extremely well. Archiving footage is easy and straightforward. Working with proxy files is easy and a breeze. While their DI is somewhat proprietary, DNxHD is widely used and accepted. Having an Avid license opens up the codec for RGB 4444. All in all, Avid works very well for me. Currently, Avid won't export 4k, but, it's coming in a soon to be released version upgrade. Avid is widely accepted in many circles, even if this forum will say otherwise.
 
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cuervo said:
Avid is widely accepted in many circles, even if this forum will say otherwise.
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This is certainly an understatement, haha - Avid is a de facto standard! I just personally don't prefer it. I find I'm faster and more fluid in FCP X than anything else I've ever tried. But again... that's all a personal preference.

Avid is definitely a solid and valid choice. Tried and true, feature-rich and powerful - just not for everyone (just like FCP X, I'm sure.)
 
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