Edirol R-4 Pro

Hey another heads up for Oade Brothers for their mods and their work. I bought a Tascam HD-P2 from them with the super mod and am very happy with it and have put it up against my buddies SD 722 and we tested using Senn mikes and tested them with and without a good quality preamp. I was surprised that both my sound engineer friend and I like both of the recorders an equal amount of time. With some mikes we like them better with the preamp and with others we liked them solo. The overall outcome was that with the upgrades and added 6db the HD-P2 performed better than I thought against the SD so I'm happy with it.
You have to buy the units from them and they are included in the price.
 
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Just a note: The Edirol R4Pro does not record solid state. It has a little hard drive. I have one from work I use and it's great. Pretty clean. I have used it on indi films and plays, and concerts. The 4 inputs are awesome and needed. However I am thinking of getting an Oade Brothers R-44 for myself. That actually is recording to solid state (SD CArds), and is smaller. No TimeCode though. I am rocking a pair of Sony EX1s though, that have no timecode. There is a software that lines up multiple tracks of the same take I am interested in too:

Plural Eyes
http://www.singularsoftware.com/autosync/

I don't know enough about the R-44's battery limits, or how much 24 bit / 4- track recording time you can get onto an SD card. But it should be every bit as good sound quality wise - even more with the Oade Mod.

Super Modded R-44 - only 100.00 more than the stock model.
http://www.oade.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=OBA&Category_Code=EDIR44-Super
 
I should be receiving a brand new, Super-Modded (by Oade) Marantz PMD-661 later today. I'll try to post a full review in a separate thread.

As for dealing with Oade, they're great guys. Doug responded quickly to my email, spent time with me on the phone to make sure I got what I wanted, and given how they "upgrade" these recorders, their prices are very attractive.

--SM
 
stephenmick said:
I should be receiving a brand new, Super-Modded (by Oade) Marantz PMD-661 later today. I'll try to post a full review in a separate thread.

As for dealing with Oade, they're great guys. Doug responded quickly to my email, spent time with me on the phone to make sure I got what I wanted, and given how they "upgrade" these recorders, their prices are very attractive.

--SM
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I just got the same model just over two months ago. I agree that Doug offers great service and the upgrade is worth the minimal cost. I've not given the 661 all that much use yet but so far its working really well. I've used it for transcription, recording a chamber orchestra with the internal mics, and recording a choir with internal mics. Its very intuitive to use and can be put into record very quickly. I like having xlrs (mic or line) and 48 volt phantom power if I need it. My only beef is that the headphone/speaker amp isn't very loud. I'll be interested to read how you like yours.
Bernie
 
Thanks Nicole.

I'm actually trying to justify the 744t. Why? Well, I have very positive experience using it with the 442n mixer, which is in my kit. Combined with that mixer, I can get my 4 mic channels into the 744t, two directly and two via line-outs from the mixer. But what would that mean for sound quality? How involved would it be to make those 4 mics' sound levels and quality identical? Versus 4 mic-ins on the R-4 Pro, I'm sure it would be more involved. Maybe it's not a deal-killer, but on a movie shoot, it just seems more elegant, more straightforward for scenes involving 3-4 mic'ed actors, to have all the mic-ins on one unit. Am I nuts?

The 744t is way lighter. Both take flash memory, which is great. The battery life on the 744t is superior, and the external lithium battery workaround for the R-4 Pro is kind of clunky-looking. Way more relevant is that the 744t holds settings even when powered off, which eliminates chances of errors on multi-week shoots. Both have timecode, but the 744t implementation seems more robust.

Next week, I'm heading to B&H hoping to spend some time hands-on with the Edirol. I've used the 744t and it's still in the running because it's a great piece of kit. But as I'm about to self-finance a film project, the bottom line is a concern and the R-4 Pro is ~$1800 more appealing on that front. The break-even versus renting beats the 744t. I'll be shooting with DSLRs, so dual system is necessary. Hmmm.
 
adamwc1776 said:
Thanks Nicole.

I'm actually trying to justify the 744t. Why? Well, I have very positive experience using it with the 442n mixer, which is in my kit. Combined with that mixer, I can get my 4 mic channels into the 744t, two directly and two via line-outs from the mixer. But what would that mean for sound quality? How involved would it be to make those 4 mics' sound levels and quality identical? Versus 4 mic-ins on the R-4 Pro, I'm sure it would be more involved. Maybe it's not a deal-killer, but on a movie shoot, it just seems more elegant, more straightforward for scenes involving 3-4 mic'ed actors, to have all the mic-ins on one unit. Am I nuts?

The 744t is way lighter. Both take flash memory, which is great. The battery life on the 744t is superior, and the external lithium battery workaround for the R-4 Pro is kind of clunky-looking. Way more relevant is that the 744t holds settings even when powered off, which eliminates chances of errors on multi-week shoots. Both have timecode, but the 744t implementation seems more robust.

Next week, I'm heading to B&H hoping to spend some time hands-on with the Edirol. I've used the 744t and it's still in the running because it's a great piece of kit. But as I'm about to self-finance a film project, the bottom line is a concern and the R-4 Pro is ~$1800 more appealing on that front. The break-even versus renting beats the 744t. I'll be shooting with DSLRs, so dual system is necessary. Hmmm.
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Why not take all the mics into your 442 mixer and feed the 744t with your mixer's direct outputs? That's the usual work flow with this combination if I'm not mistaken.
Bernie
 
@adamwc1776-The Edirol is a great machine. I have used the Edirol R-44 before on two different sets. The preamps are pretty good but can be better with the Oade Brothers upgrade. As stated above you could continue using your mixer and used the direct outs and route that to your recorder or if you want to just go straight to recorder. The thing is you have to do what feels right to you even though we can all give you the pro/cons of doing something in the end its up to you to decide what works and doesn't. Everybody ends up with their own work flow. The way I do something somebody may not recommend but the way someone else does it they may. If you are getting good sound and no one is complaining so be it. At the end of the day if the job is done right and it sounds right then you are good to go. I'm pretty sure someone will post against or agree with my post but life is a big political aspect so prepare for a debate. Go to b&h and take your mixer and try the Edirol with your mixer and without. What do you like or what is comfortable for you? Also you might want to look into the Fostex PD204 its a very nice recorder with amazing onboard preamps and it has way better TC(imho).


Nicole
 
berniebeaudry said:
Why not take all the mics into your 442 mixer and feed the 744t with your mixer's direct outputs? That's the usual work flow with this combination if I'm not mistaken.
Bernie
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Well there it is. I had used it for 2-track recording. Spent some time at sounddevices.com and though you do need to spend a little extra for slightly different xlr cables, you can get each mic on its own channel using all four channels of the 744t as line-in. I guess that you bypass the 744t's mic pre-amps, but the 442's are up to the task. Cool.
 
Sound Chaser said:
The R4Pro is an awkwardly placed unit that does not fit any particular niche but, can do a number of jobs with compromises.

Where the unit shines is SUPERB AUDIO QUALITY, especially at the preamp stage which also has abundant headroom.
Sorry to say this guys but, the Edirol Pro4 is sonically superior to the SD 744t.
I have done many unscientific side by side comparisons purposely favoring the SD 744t and the Pro 4 beats it where it counts--audio fidelity.
In the following test a $4,000. Neumann U87 was plugged in directly to the mic pres of both units. The R4 Pro received a single pass while the SD744t was rerecorded eight times to get an optimum sample to compete with the R4 Pro. The R4 Pro still beats it: http://www.soundchaser.ca/sample2.html
The R4Pro is also a better stand alone unit with faster menu and writing access and separate mix facilities. Maximum sampling rate is 192KHz 24bit. You can use it as a stand alone double system with camera sync bypassing the need for a mixer, but you can not monitor in mono unless you double the channel assign to left and right. The unit is also decidedly superior for live audio recording of music performance than the Sound Devices-- a much more demanding application in terms of sure musical audiophile fidelity.

THIS UNIT IS A COMPROMISE AND IN NO WAY IS A MATCH TO THE 744t WHEN THE APPLICATION IS FILM & VIDEO.

As I stated earlier in the post, the R4 Pro is 'awkwardly placed'. While it can be used for HD video, it lacks the flexibility and professional features of a proper film recorder. There is no 48.048KHz sampling rate so the unit can not be used for film. There are no user presets so any setting you program is lost when powered down--the biggest downfall of the unit. The internal battery slot (8x AA) is useless, lasting for an hour and a half; it is only good for emergency backup. I use an on board IDX lithion Ion battery with a pouch right on the R-4 carrying bag for a total of 16-20 hours charge. There is also a lack of professional options on the limited menu. Fianlly, let us not forget two extremely important qualities for location recording--dependability and portability. While the R4 Pro is a rugged dependable unit it is in no way the equal of the 744t in terms of bullet proof dependability. Not just a few bumps here and there, but humidity, extreme climatic changes, endless non stop run time and sure physical abuse. Also, SIZE matters-- the forte of all SD products.
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Sorry to bump, but I'm not sure how sample rate correlates to synch. Seems that synch comes down to frame rate, not sample rate. The only time sample rate would throw off the synch is when the file is improperly imported, no? My only experience is with digital cinema so I could be completely off...
 
FYI My R4 Pro records 48k just fine. I don't know where Sound Chaser got the info that it doesn't.

Get some big batteries and you're golden. Awesome unit. I'm going to get an Oade Brother's modified R-44 with dead silent preamps, smaller size, no hard drives to break, takes 4 AA batteries and lasts longer, and you can sync 2 together. Being an EX1 guy I don't need timecode, and I don't bang my gear around so I think I'll be just fine.
 
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