easiest way with Zoom H4N to record in mono via XLR input and stereo using built-ins

S

skribe00

Member
Just got a Zoom H4n and will be using it to record audio interviews for podcasts, as well as for my own music production.

But for the NPR-like interviews, I want to be able to record the interviewee in mono, as is typical for broadcast, using my SM63 run into one of the XLR inputs on the H4n; and record room ambiance in stereo using the H4n's built-in stereo mics, at the same time.

Sounds feasible, right? It should be. Yet I'm confused on exactly how to do this. The manual doesn't seem to provide this specific setup, and/or seems to record either in stereo mode OR mono, versus stereo AND mono.

Does anyone have any recommendations on how to record in mono using one external mic and stereo at the same time using the built-in mics?

Thanks!

Goal: I'm looking for the best quality recording, with voice in mono and ambiance in stereo, via the easiest method. Let me know, for instance, which setting to record in, Stereo, 4CH or MTR, and then, if getting the voice mono then requires essentially converting the voice recording to true mono using Cubase (or the like) in editing/post-production.
 
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Use 4-channel mode. It records the XLR inputs and the internal mics simultaneously.

The H4n manual addresses this on pages 001 and 037.

However, recording something where dialog is first and foremost, recording the "room" at the same time gives you audio you cannot use. Even those on-location interviews you hear on NPR are recorded with a handheld mic, and the more "roomy" clips come from sources that are more distant from the mic.
 
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Thanks Alex; I figured out the 4CH part. But why do you say "recording the room at the same time gives you audio you cannot use?" Because conceivably, you should be able to record two tracks: one voice with my SM63 via the XLR input; and then another track for room ambiance with the built-in stereo XYs. Perhaps the question is then: Doesn't recording on separate "channels" mean I should get separate recordings/files of Track 1.) the interviewee/person's voice via the SM63 input to the Zoom's XLR; and Track 2.) room/ambience/input/built-in Zoom mics?

Or is distance a factor even though it's different inputs/channels/tracks? If so, how far do the built-in stereo XYs -- meaning, how far does the zoom itself need to be placed from the SM63/vox source/interviewee? In other words, how far does the external mic/SM63 need to be from the built-in Zoom XY mics? And by extension, how long of an XLR cable do I need for the SM63 that plugs into the XLR input to get usable source/interviewee and ambiance/room?

Thanks!
 
Shouldn't I be able to record two separate and very usable/professional tracks in the 4CH mode of 1.) room, via the Zoom's internal XY stereo mics; and 2.) the interviewee's voice via the external SM63 mic in one of the XLR inputs?
 
skribe00 said:
Shouldn't I be able to record two separate and very usable/professional tracks in the 4CH mode of 1.) room, via the Zoom's internal XY stereo mics; and 2.) the interviewee's voice via the external SM63 mic in one of the XLR inputs?
Click to expand...

The "room" mics will also pick up a distant and muddy version of the interview audio, and mixing that with the close-up mic will likely just make the voice less clear. It's better to record room tone separately when everything else is quiet on the set, and only background noise (air conditioners, traffic, background conversation) is recorded.

- Greg
 
Yes, you'll be able to plug your mic intot eh XLR in on the H4n, and the built-in stereo mic array will record to tracks 3 and 4. You'll have independent use of the primary audio and the "room" sound in post.

What I mean by sound that you cannot use... the ambient sound won't do you much good. Mixing it in will just muddy the sound. Plus, unless the H4n is mounted and isolated, it's going to have some handling noise in the internal mics.

So... you certainly can do exactly what you're asking about, it just isn't advisable.
 
Thanks both of you for your insightful input, appreciate it very much.

So how should I in very basic terms, record the interviewee and room/ambiance so it can be both recorded and mixed well/professionally, with the setup I have? And for now, please provide guidance via the current setup versus advising me to buy a preamp/or/onsitemixer and another mic. Thanks in advance!
 
skribe00 said:
Thanks both of you for your insightful input, appreciate it very much.

So how should I in very basic terms, record the interviewee and room/ambiance so it can be both recorded and mixed well/professionally, with the setup I have? And for now, please provide guidance via the current setup versus advising me to buy a preamp/or/onsitemixer and another mic. Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...

First let's be clear on some definitions. "Ambience" is the general background sound found in a particular place - crickets in the background if you're recording outdoors on a summer's evening, freeway traffic behind a reporter's standup, etc. Then there's also "room tone," the 'sound of silence' in a location, ie, what is on the recording in between the words and phrases. Ambience is similar to sound effects, it's something you can hear. Room tone is a sense of presence, you don't hear it so much as feel it. Imagine recording in a completely silent location, no identifiable background noise at all ... the speaker says a word, waits 5 beats, and says another word. Room tone is what is in the space between the two words even if there are no other identifiable sounds, it feels different from the blank tape one would have if the mic was actually muted during the time period.

So on to your interview recording. I debate whether you're going to need an actual ambience recording at all. Your mic is an omni, it's going to pick up from all directions. It will be close to the subject's mouth, within a few inches if you're using it properly, so the subject's voice will dominate - the inverse square law says that the closest sound sources will be the loudest, all other things being equal. But it's not going to be deaf to other sounds in the vicinity - they're still going to be recorded, just at a much lower volume. There's your ambience without actually having to add it later.

You still might want room tone, handy during editing if you're doing audio only, virtually mandatory if you're doing audio for video. Room tone gives you something to lay into the track if you cut and insert spaces during post. It needs to be recorded at the location with the same mic, etc, and all the people in position as when the original dialog is recorded but with everyone on the location standing still and silent. You also want it to be as free as possible from any extraneous sounds as you can get. After you wrap the actual interview, tell anyone present just to keep still and quiet for a minute or so, roll the recorder, and record a room tone take for 30 seconds or a minute on the same track following the interview takes.

If you actually want an ambience recording, you do that completely separately. It doesn't even have to be on the same day as the interview, much less at the same time. In fact, there are very good reasons NOT to try to record it at the same time. Consider ... you have the interviewee on camera with the mic a few inches from his mouth. You have the recorder with its internal mics recording ambience back behiond the camera, say 10 feet away. The subject speaks. The sound reaches the voice mic almost instantly, but it takes a few milliseconds to get to the ambience mics on the recorder. When you try to mix the two tracks, the voice in the ambience track is slightly delayed with respect to the voice in the dialog track. Voila - instant reverb. When the tracks are lined up so the background sounds are simultaneous, the voice will be slightly off. But try to adjust it by sliding the tracks in post so the voice is aligned and you get the ambient sounds out of kilter, the ambient recording being earlier than the same sound in the voice recording, "pre-verb" if you will. The solution is to record the location background sounds on a track as completely clean as you can get it, at a completely different time from the dialog track, nothing else going on in the location as you record.

The bottom line ... record the interview with your mic and recorder as a mono track, getting the best recording of the dialog as you can. Don't worry about ambience other than trying to avoid it bleeding into the dialog as much as you can. After the interview itself is done, record a separate room tone take for a minute or so with exactly the same setup and mic placement. Strike the set and send everyone home. If you feel you do need an actual ambience track after all, hang around until the dust settles or come back by yourself the next day. When everything has settled down, switch the recorder to stereo and the internal mics, put it on a stand so there's no handling noise, and record how ever much of the background sounds you feel you're going to need.
 
skribe00 said:
This is for audio only. And if you're up this a.m., please advise. Thanks Alex!
Click to expand...

Steve pretty much covered it, though he's focusing more on audio for video/film. The principles are the same.

When NPR reporters go out, they take a recorder and a mic... not a recorder and a mic and two more mics. Focus on the voice for the interview. If you're following the subject around as s/he does something that makes sound, record that with the same mic. Record some room tone with that mic (with both you and the interviewee sitting still and quiet... :30-:60). Get ambient sound beds in stereo later, if at all, and use them to set the background. For a radio/audio-only interview, ambient sound beds probably aren't necessary.
 
Alex and Steve,

Both you guys are great; seriously, thanks for schooling me on this. I really appreciate the context on notions of room and ambiance and what's required for specific occasions. So update: I went out into the field with my setup today, did a sit-down interview in an office and then a walk-around a vehicle manufacturing plant. I was really nervous and uptight and there were various logistics issues so amid all that, I forgot to record 30 to 60 seconds of room tone (without us talking) in either setting. Would lack of such room tone make it difficult to impossible to produce and edit a piece for a radio story? Is there a way of grabbing enough room tone while we were paused in our conversation? He was heavy on pregnant pauses but perhaps not enough to get enough room tone? Thanks in advance for your patience with my lack of even basic knowledge here.
 
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If you didn't get room tone, pregnant pauses can birth some handy sound... but there's no guarantee. Listen carefully for things you might not have noticed already, such as breaths and other mouth noises. You work with what you've got.
 
Alex,

My other question is this: Now that I have recorded the interviewee, doing so with the mono SM63 plugged into one channel/input (channel one) of the Zoom H4n, I feel getting a real mono .wav file to use, or to file with producers, may be complicated by the fact that the H4n records in stereo only. Essentially, the result of the setup/recording, in as far as I can tell, would be that I would have a recorded track that will still be heard initially on only one side (left or right), due to the H4n's stereo (default) configuration. Is that so? And if so, how can I change it, meaning specifically:

What can I do, either using the H4n itself, or via my Cubase LE 5, to get the recorded files to true mono files that a producer (or I) could use to create a finished piece, with again, the interviewee recording in true mono .wav?

Thanks!
 
This had been covered here and in many forums.
After importing to Cubase or other NLE/DAW, convert the stereo track from the H4n into a mono track (or file) using ONLY the track with the dialog. Pan or assign it to center. The exact procedure will vary some depending on the application.
 
Rick,

Thanks for the response. I guess I'm needing more explicit, step-by-step details. My version of Cubase has the ability to convert files, including stereo files to mono. My first question is: Should I simply use that process? But if so, when or at what point would I be panning or assigning it (the stereo wav file) to center? I'm confused about your panning to center on how and at what point I'd be doing that, although I'm presuming it would be panning the stereo hard left to center.

Question #2: There is also a "stereo flip" option, a function that works with stereo audio selections only, which allows
one to manipulate the left and right channel in the following ways:
Flip: Left-Right Swaps the left and right channel.

Left to Stereo: Copies the left channel sound to the right channel.

Right to Stereo: Copies the right channel sound to the left channel.

Merge: Merges both channels on each side for mono sound.

Subtract: Subtracts the left channel information from the right and
vice versa. This is typically used as a “Karaoke effect”, for
removing centered mono material from a stereo signal.

I'm wary of this as it seems as it could confuse the required panning or somehow be detrimental if I have a hard left stereo recording in which I want only to use the left but convert it to mono.

Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks very much in advance.
 
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I'm not all that familiar with Cubase but you're starting with a 2-channel stereo l/r track. You split the track and the result is two mono tracks, one containing the previous left channel and the other the previous right. Delete the unusused track. Now there's one mono track. Save the file for that track and place it onto the audio portion of your video timeline. The mixer panel for that track will have a 'pan' control that allows you to send it in the left output channel, the right output, or some proportion into both. Leave it in the centre so the track goes equally into the left and right output channels. I don't see any need for the "stereo flip" tool in this situation at all. Before mixing down as you render the final video, your audio timeline will have a number of different parallel tracks on it, some stereo and some mono. Dialog tracks are often 'checkerboarded' with a mono track for each character in the scene. Room tone and FX tracks may be either stereo or mono, usually mono, while music and ambience tracks are often stereo. Just like multi-tracking music where each instrument and vocal is recorded on a separate mono track that is laid into the timeline parallel to all the other tracks and positioned in the stereo mix through the use of the pan controls associated with each track. Yep, other than classical, music is often recorded as multiple mono tracks with each instrument mic'ed and recorded to its own mono track, with the final stereo mix something that created in post.
 
Two new problems:

I successfully split the stereo file and imported the one with the voice.

Problem #1: However, I can't hear anything on playback. Could someone provide me step by step, explicit instructions on how to rectify this? I'm assuming correcting it successfully would entail ensuring my output/input busses, channels and drivers settings are set correctly to hear the file on playback and also to mix it or process it further. But so far I'm flummoxed and woefully confused. I originally only wanted to use my laptop and Cubase LE 5 to process/produce/mix this file. So I had no external device connected. Now I have my H4n connected, thinking it might be required to further process the file and/or redo the splitting and importing. My original idea was to use the Zoom H4n to record, transfer its wav files to my computer and then use Cubase LE 5 to alter the recordings to broadcast radio specifications.

Problem #2: When I simply click on the left side of the split wav file stored in my laptops hard drive after split-exporting it, and click to play it in Windows media, it plays slowed down, like we're speaking in slow motion. It's slowed just a bit, but noticeably and weirdly. And that is despite me having matched the sample and bit rate on exporting.

Thanks in advance for your quick and easy to understand help.
 
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