DVX200 Wish List

Re: DVX200 Wish List

my list is short but sweet.

- 2/3" CCD's... definately.
- Nice Wide Angle Default Lens
- Interchangeable lens system
- Shoulder Mount system
- 720p @ 24FPS / 720p @60FPS / Normal SD res recording
- 4:2:2 Colour space
- Image controls like on the DVX100
- Native 16:9 CCDs
- Direct to HD recording via Firewire
- Standard Tape recording
- Capture RAW uncompressed data to HD via firewire
- Firewire 400/800 i/o
 
Re: DVX200 Wish List

10s, that makes sense as far as someone with a news background.  There's no reason at all for someone on a run and gun to decrease their depth of field, so they'd have no interest in a 35mm frame size.  But, still I don't think you understand how small this artistic prosumer market is when compared with the far more profitable generic consumer market.

How many DVX's do you think have shipped worldwide since the camera was introduced?  Surprisingly, the rumored number is only 60,000 units.  Furthermore, the market for items with interchangeable lenses (DSLRs, XL1/s/2) shows that the vast majority of users never buy an additional lens.

Obviously this is very different on the "pro" end of the scale, but on DSLR's like the D70 and D300 (and videocameras like the XL series), there's almost a 1:1 ratio of camera bodies to lenses sold.  That really says more about the users that buy an artistic low-end camera, and it also tells you how small the "aftermarket" sales might actually be.

It's a matter of macroeconomics rather then supply and demand.  Sure there's demand, strong demand...but it's not nessicarily a profitable market to begin servicing.  The only way I could see someone jumping in this field would be to secure the IP rights to any research and then license that out to other companies, but even that is a very risky undertaking.

I don't think there's a way either one of us is right or wrong about this, as it's all so speculative.  Either way, I hope you're right and I'm wrong...because I'd really like to have a large-frame interchangable lens camera...(although I wouldn't settle for DV anymore).
 
Re: DVX200 Wish List

J-Barnes, I appreciate you thoughtful responses & challenges. I can usually count on your posting to be interesting, informative & challenging....we need that.  ;)

I might be wrong about the market size, but what ever the case Hopefully we will get those cameras that gives us the results we're after so you & I have excellent tools so to get we too can try our hand at telling a great story.

I'm thankful for the DVX & this site of kindred spirits. I try to work with what I have & make the best of it & try not to be too frustrated :).... What really gets me excited is the great work we see coming from so many people. Now if we can figure out a better distribution system....because that's our real bottle neck, put your good mind to that problem.
 
Re: DVX200 Wish List

Here's one more interesting tidbit. For the sake of argument, lets just say we know it's true that the DVX has only shipped 60,000 units since it's introduction. I just read that apple shipped around 110,000 iBook laptops per month in the fourth quarter last year. 110,000 per month! And they're the 8% market share!
 
Re: DVX200 Wish List

I would like also something like 240p, 250p, 300p for slow motion.

Sounds stupid but sometimes I'm really missing it in cameras...
 
Re: DVX200 Wish List

As far as upgrades go... they can do whatever they want as far as I'm concerned. As long as the footage still has that beautiful filmic that DVX100 footage has, I'll be happy as hell.
 
Re: DVX200 Wish List

Although everything wished for so far would be great, I think a few of them won't happen any time soon.

Full frame CCDs are unlikely at a viable price point because the larger a CCD, the lower the yield of "perfect" chips without too many duff pixels or other defects which can be obtained from a single silicon wafer. This does mean they are much more expensive. The yields will get better, but not quickly. That's why even pro cameras only have 2/3" sensors, as J Barnes has already said. It's also easier and cheaper to make decent lenses with acceptable edge distortions/aberations for smaller sensors as the image circle is smaller - reference Canon's new lenses for they non-35mm frame DSLRs.

Faster frames like 240p, 250p, 300p are far off. The main reason we don't have comparable CCDs to DSLRs is they only take one picture at a time. A video camera has to move a frame of data up to 30 times every second, process it and lay it down to tape. Inexpensive mass market consumer electronics are pushed very hard to achieve this. Faster framerates would require much more expensive state of the art stuff. Of course, this will filter down, but not as quickly as we would like!

Additions to the wishlist:
MUCH less noisy in the blacks - no one seemed to mention this, and it's a big drawback. Didn't stop me buying one, but it was certainly a negative point. Some highend cameras actually sample black frame noise and subtract it from each frame - but this is probably not possible at the price point, but at least matching the Sonys would be nice.

Better LCD viewing angle - especially in the vertical plane, so we can still see it when we hold it high or low or crane up and down, without having to keep tilting the screen. The LCD on my Dell Inspiron rocks in comparison, albeit more in the horizontal plane.

Able to turn off the EVF separately from the LCD to save power.

Improve Autofocus speed in progressive mode.

Additional easily on-the-fly selectable autofocus sensors to left and right of centre like Canon SLRs - allows autofocus with subjects to the sides of the frame - especially useful in 16:9!

(Separate audio limiters for the two channels. I believe at the moment excessive noise on one channel will turn down both channels. NOT a huge problem for most situations, but nice to have if you really want to record two very different sources).

Hope I haven't duplicated anyone.

Cheers
Eric
(Broadcast TV Engineer)
 
Re: DVX200 Wish List

And "live" offcentre autofocus sensors could be used for automatic rack focus - of course then you would want to be able to control the focus speed!
 
Re: DVX200 Wish List

Really I just wish I could have a full frame CCD. It could be 35mm 3-perf, that would be perfectly fine with me, and I'd want full reflex viewing with a PL lens mount.

You could strip away every other piece of electronic doo-daddery on the camera and just give me full frame and full reflex with the glass of my choice and I'd be a happy dude.
 
Re: DVX200 Wish List

I think everyone on this forum has to step back and look at the wish lists and take a reality check. If your selling a product for under $5000 (US) then no manufacturer in their right mind would offer half the things requested. Can we perhaps be a bit more practical here....Just my 2 cents worth.

Unless Jan you can prove me wrong.......I'd place an order for 20 new units.
 
Re: DVX200 Wish List

better to have asked and not recieved than to simply never have asked and not recieve becuase you never asked.

simply put as the title states, ..it is a wish list.
 
Re: DVX200 Wish List

In that case......I wish the camera could have a peace on earth and goodwill to all mankind button. Eh, lets think a bit now.....A stop world poverty button would be handy and probably a Grant you any three wishes filter, which would be great for you guys because anything that was missed out on the new camcorder you can ask for instead via the filter, so your in a win/win situation.

Panasonic could perhaps consider a bundle pack to include a set of Dorothy Ruby Red Shoes so we could all click our heels and go where we want. Think of the sales Jan.
 
Re: DVX200 Wish List

Yeah, but if we had peace on earth and goodwill towards man, with no poverty...where would we get our stories for our little films?
 
Re: DVX200 Wish ListYeah, but if we had peace on e

Re: DVX200 Wish ListYeah, but if we had peace on e

Yeah, but if we had peace on earth and goodwill towards man, with no poverty...where would we get our stories for our little films?

You could try comedy, remember I said try?

It intrigues and worries me somewhat why you think you'd have no stories to tell if everything was AOK in world!
 
Re: DVX200 Wish List

As is my first post and i´m not a greedy person i will not ask for a lot of thinks (i believe).

I must say what im seeing now in cinema is people who are willing to forget the format and resolution of the film being projected as long as the story is interesting (28 days, 9th session, open water,... films that reached Spain) we even have our own examples ("the party", great one). So lets say 16:9. Ok, i think this will be for sure so not an problem there.

Interchangable lenses? No thanks (not like Canon at least) as long as it have a great lense for itself and the ability to act as a good relay lens for all this cheap DYI (written like this?) 35mm dof adapters (best invention since beer, maybe Pana should make one too). It will be helpful for DOF holy grail seakers and still be able to work in news and holidays for techie fans like my father (i´m 28, not a kid).

Bigger CCDs? why? i rather have more latitude and resolution in a better price range with BETTER CCDs . Don´t care about how and wich format they give it to me (1/3, 1/2, 2/3, 1/1).

HD 24p-25p and 30p-i 50p-60p 50i-60i? ok, it gives me the resolution what i talk about. Awesome, but they must protect their hi-end cams, so it´s up to them.

And of course, this is my dream: Get rid of the minidv tapes and MPEG2... i want the option of stuck a big hard disk on her back and go for RAW information if i desire so. I didn´t realized before how you talk about your cameras, as for me is my lady, so i use her.

Rods, matteboxes and follow focus are options and not the basic camera so it will depend on other companies for sure, but the rod placers are not bad idea at all. XLRs independant channels, sure.

So i think this is it, not to much though as you can find it in the market right now, but not with the quality Pana will deliver it. I hope it doesn´t sound bad and happens soon.

Thanks for the existence of this place.
 
Re: DVX200 Wish List

Most of you have already covered my wishlist several times over. :D

I must however bring up one point that has actually lost me some work because of one of the DVX's shortcomings. The blacks are too noisy. I have had more than one director dismiss this camera for this reason.

If someone has a magic recipe (settings or filters) to fix this I'd love to know about it. If not, it needs to be fixed in the next releace of this camera.
 
Re: DVX200 Wish List

Jan,
a sincere addition to my product requests. please move the mic unit further back so that it does not interere with mattebox or sunshade filter systems. anywhere behind the line of the lense threads and bayonet mount would be great. ;)
 
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