Brandon Rice
Distributed Producer
Thank you. It has taken me quite awhile to really learn how to use the camera, but if you're patient, it can have stunning results.
DVX100B vs. XL2
- Thread starter KyleProhaska
- Start date
Brandon Rice
Distributed Producer
AshG said:
I know it's noise, but I LIKE IT.
KyleProhaska
Veteran
Thanks for your comments folks. I think I decided to go with the XL2, don't kill me please LOL. It just seems to be more professional to me. I know the DVX is awesome and it has its perks that I really like but the "film" look isn't the only thing i'm going for. Ide rather have a Camera that can almost copy any look then a camera that has its own look among some others. Idk it just seems like the XL2 although harder to learn and use, might be the ticket for me. I think for the multiple uses I require, its the right choice. Plus I have the opportunity to get it from a local guy selling one w/30hrs on it for 2500. That price you can't beat anywhere, not even on ebay. It's not the camera that makes the film anyway, its the person behind it. I'm excited to get started. Thanks for all the help folks.
Btw, if anyone has a Panny GS400, sell it now! They are selling like hotcakes and I just got 1560 for mine on Ebay. That was random but w/e had to say that.
-Kyle
Btw, if anyone has a Panny GS400, sell it now! They are selling like hotcakes and I just got 1560 for mine on Ebay. That was random but w/e had to say that.
-Kyle
Brandon Rice
Distributed Producer
KyleProhaska said:
You wonder why the guy's sellin' his XL-2 so cheap.... hm.... anyway... I hope you checked out my site, and trailer... and check out some of the other folks stuff here too... I really think the DVX is your best bet for everything... nevertheless, it is your decision
DavidBeier
Veteran
*sigh* Why are we so obsesssed with film that we want to emulate bad film? I haven't shot a whole lot of film but we always did our best to MINIMIZE grain as do most.
Now, I'm glad that pansonic's grain looks more like film grain than the others do (I find film grain is less ugly that video noise) but, at the end of the day, I'd rather have as little grain as possible. That's why I find it so hilarious whenever I hear someone say, "The XL2 is more filmish. You can add grain!!!"
Brandon Rice
Distributed Producer
Ok, I guess I didn't word that right. I do like a bit of grain (noise, whatever) in my image... it gives it an organic feel, and I do not like it overdone. Take a look at my site and watch the trailer on there, is the grain (noise) bad in the shots?
DavidBeier
Veteran
You're footage looks nice. I like a bit more contrast but it's a preference.
The thing about grain is this. I assume that we're all essentially trying to look as close to 35mm film as possible (if not, disregaurd everything). At a theater, most films I got see don't really have a noticible amount of grain. Indie films do sometimes as do re-release of older movies but generally I don't spot much. On DVD, it's INCREDIBLY rare that I see grain in even a decently shot 35mm movie. Go and look at some of the best looking movies in your collection. Do you see any grain there? I doubt you'll be able to find it.
A desire for film grain I still think of a silly quick fix. We see it in 8mm, news reversal, or some of the fast stocks from the 70s. At it's best, it can be used as an effect to make something feel "gritty" or "real" since it mimicks news footage. At it's worse (and the way I tend to look at it), it's making good video look like bad film. Just my opinion on the subject.
The thing about grain is this. I assume that we're all essentially trying to look as close to 35mm film as possible (if not, disregaurd everything). At a theater, most films I got see don't really have a noticible amount of grain. Indie films do sometimes as do re-release of older movies but generally I don't spot much. On DVD, it's INCREDIBLY rare that I see grain in even a decently shot 35mm movie. Go and look at some of the best looking movies in your collection. Do you see any grain there? I doubt you'll be able to find it.
A desire for film grain I still think of a silly quick fix. We see it in 8mm, news reversal, or some of the fast stocks from the 70s. At it's best, it can be used as an effect to make something feel "gritty" or "real" since it mimicks news footage. At it's worse (and the way I tend to look at it), it's making good video look like bad film. Just my opinion on the subject.
I own an XL2, and though I had a tough time deciding between the XL2 and the DVX100B, the XL2 did it simply because of it's customizability. I love the camera to death, and have no regrets...but one. The only thing that's keeping it from being the perfect camera is it's color. I've played with the presets until the buttons wore out (*exaggeration*); I've tried about every preset I could think of, as well as some of the ones the "so-called-pros" are using, and to be honest, I am not happy with the colors AT ALL. I've lit my scenes every single way using 3 point lighting and beyond with every imaginable variable in my 3200K tungsten lights, and the footage I get from my XL2 looks like extremely pretty video...there's nothing "cinematic" about it. It doesn't have the "mojo" as mentioned earlier.
Frankly, the words I hate the most are "Just fix it in post." NO, FIX IT IN THE FRAME, IN THE CAMERA, NOW!!! Ok, that's a little harsh -- but people always tell me, "Well, you can always adjust the gamma curve in AE with Color Finesse to replicate the same gamma curve." Ok, you try to manually go through 1200 configurations for each shot.
So, the whole point of you reading that was that the XL2's extreme sharpness and colors make for a great broadcast/documentary/news camera, but if you're doing shortfilms, go with the DVX100B or HVX200. As soon as I get the funds together, I'm going out and purchasing the AG-HVX200 -- it's going to fit my needs perfectly...but I need the cash first.
I'd hang on to my XL2 longer, but I'm sick of using tape in my workflow (dropouts, dirty heads, more dropouts, clean heads, tape deterioration, even more dropouts -- hell, I can't imagine going with HDV). I've used the DVX100A, HVX200, XL1 & XL1s, GL2, XL2, PD-170, and got to use a VariCam once, let me tell you -- Panasonic has become my favorite. Unless Canon goes tapeless with variable framerates and more saturated, pretty, "mojo"-like colors, I'm going to become a Panasonic customer.
Ok, I'm done ranting.
Frankly, the words I hate the most are "Just fix it in post." NO, FIX IT IN THE FRAME, IN THE CAMERA, NOW!!! Ok, that's a little harsh -- but people always tell me, "Well, you can always adjust the gamma curve in AE with Color Finesse to replicate the same gamma curve." Ok, you try to manually go through 1200 configurations for each shot.
So, the whole point of you reading that was that the XL2's extreme sharpness and colors make for a great broadcast/documentary/news camera, but if you're doing shortfilms, go with the DVX100B or HVX200. As soon as I get the funds together, I'm going out and purchasing the AG-HVX200 -- it's going to fit my needs perfectly...but I need the cash first.
I'd hang on to my XL2 longer, but I'm sick of using tape in my workflow (dropouts, dirty heads, more dropouts, clean heads, tape deterioration, even more dropouts -- hell, I can't imagine going with HDV). I've used the DVX100A, HVX200, XL1 & XL1s, GL2, XL2, PD-170, and got to use a VariCam once, let me tell you -- Panasonic has become my favorite. Unless Canon goes tapeless with variable framerates and more saturated, pretty, "mojo"-like colors, I'm going to become a Panasonic customer.
Ok, I'm done ranting.
FYI, there is no longer a film grain option on the XL2, there was a patent dispute. Silly anyway...
The grain is not bad in your trailer, it is very obvious on the indoor stuff. On a tech note I would suggest you try and control your light a little better, at times it was just way too flat or too harsh but I know when there is no budget, there is not much you can do.
Enjoy the XL2 and let me know if you need some help with settings. I recommend the 16X manual lens and the 3X Wide if you decide to invest some more. With those lenses you really do end up getting a lot more out of the camera.
ash =o)
The grain is not bad in your trailer, it is very obvious on the indoor stuff. On a tech note I would suggest you try and control your light a little better, at times it was just way too flat or too harsh but I know when there is no budget, there is not much you can do.
Enjoy the XL2 and let me know if you need some help with settings. I recommend the 16X manual lens and the 3X Wide if you decide to invest some more. With those lenses you really do end up getting a lot more out of the camera.
ash =o)
Brandon Rice said:
I think you'll find alot of xl2s (maybe dvxs too?) getting offloaded with the A1 coming out so cheap.
Great buy Kyle...you can't go wrong at that price. Throw the Letus adapter and primes on the front and you've got a great little cam for narrative work also.
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The Machinist
Respected Member
That is pretty cool.
DavidBeier
Veteran
Yeah, if the A1 does what it says it'll do and comes out for 4k, the it'll be a kick in the nuts for people who just bought an XL2. Though you'll still get the true 24p and interchangible lenses from the XL2.
J.R. Hudson
Spirit Animal
Paul Coleman said:Yes, yes, and yes.
Ok, here's my advice: If you can't tell the difference between the Canon image and the Panasonic image, get the Canon. But if you see a difference, get the Panny.
Exactly; because for those that notice the difference, it is the right choice.
John_Hudson said:
I sure notice a difference, it's just not the same one you see. Have you shot and edited anything on the XL2 yet John? Go on, humour me, you might be surprised.
In contrast to the XL2, the DVX is decidedly noisy, and lower res even if you use the anamorphic adaptor. Personally I like to shoot flat, so the colours are not an issue for me. I actually find the Canon colours to be more natural, but it's true you can play around more in camera with the DVX colours for nice effects.
The two things I miss about the DVX are its size (when being inconspicous is desirable) and the LCD screen. I agree the flip up LCD on the Canon is annoying. But the stabilisation in the lens is way better, and the image, for me it's a step up in quality.
Ironically, after selling my two DVXs I'm thinking of picking another one up because the XL2 is too large to mount on the Steadicam Merlin... but I think I'll hold out till the A1 comes along - looks like it's going to be a killer cam.
Brandon Rice
Distributed Producer
go look at my raw stills for my newest film... very flat... the DVX rocks dude.
I think he means flat colors, not flat lighting... it is worth noting that even when shot flat, the XL2 still has all the color information for tweaking in post. It is like the F900 in that regard. I know people who shoot flat on the Vari but I just cant do it, too many settings to play with!
ash =o)
ash =o)