DVX100b vs. pd-170, the age old question... please help!

B

BrettR.

Active member
I searched and found some simular threads, but most were about the first generation dvx or the dvx-a.

Well, after hours of online research I still can't choose. My main focus at this time is on BMX bicycle filming. that varies from outdoor shots in the streets to indoor skateparks, which are often poorly lit.

People in the industry use both of these cameras, so i no that either one will work ok, but for me this is a sizable investment and will have it for a while.

I'm on a trv-900 right now... if anyone actually has low light test shots of the same thing for the trv-900 and dvx100b that would be great.

anyway, I'm not so much of a fan of the pd due to its smaller lcd screen. when using fisheye lens or doing shot wher eyou are riding along next to, or shooting from a very odd/low angle the viewfinder is unusable, so the lcd is more inportant to me than some people. The outside footage from the dvx I've seem is soo beautiful, it has the 3.5 lcd, more options, and more possibilites for use, as I've recently taken a part time job with the company that does everythign form educational videos to political events, so it not being bmx-only is possible, though it is my main target right now.


So if it wasn't for my low light concerns the dvx would already be on the way... and if the dvx is as good as the trv-900 or better I probably will choose it. to me the trv-900 (not 950) is pretty much my bottom line acceptible low-light preformance. Sadly I can't afford to buy both cameras and use the pd when needed in dark dark places.

any other wisdom is also welcome.

thanks,
Brett Rohlfing.
 
I own at dvx100a, and at work I've used two 100a's, a pd150, and a 100b we just got. I've also used plenty of other 100a's and 100's, etc. etc. I tested a pd170 but never took it on the field.

Personally, I think the 100b is amazing. We put it side by side with a 100a in low light and couldn't help noticing that the colors were much cleaner and more vibrant...then again, I was the one operating the 100b....so maybe I have the magic touch. But I was seriously impressed. It's less grainy, and a lot of the minor flaws of the 100a are fixed in it. I'd say the low light performance is on par with the pd150 in terms of noise levels, but the colors are better and more vibrant. (60i versus 60i) Of course, the pd170 zooms in tighter and may have a cleaner image than the pd150 even, but for wide angle stuff the 100b rules. I'm a huge fan; for low-light videography stuff it's a real winner and for "narrative" work it's better than the 100a, which is fantastic as it is.
 
I have used the pd-170 extensively. I must say that the image quality on the DVX can't be beat, but the sony, in my opinion, is built a bit sturdier and it takes quite a bruising. I haven't really taken my DVX100 into extreme conditions, but the pd-170 has been dropped, submitted to water, dust, sand and it kept on tickin. Just needed to take it in for maintainance once. Since you'll be working with the elements find out how the DVX weathers in the weather.
 
Barry Green said:
Get the camera you want, and add a little light to it if you find you need more light.
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often times, espcially in competition filming there are riders all over the course, and many times not within 5-20 feet of you. if i was doing osme up close (maybe fisheye) shots that would work fine, but there are just as many or more times when just "adding light" isn't a possibility.
 
Johnnyfive said:
I have used the pd-170 extensively. I must say that the image quality on the DVX can't be beat, but the sony, in my opinion, is built a bit sturdier and it takes quite a bruising. I haven't really taken my DVX100 into extreme conditions, but the pd-170 has been dropped, submitted to water, dust, sand and it kept on tickin. Just needed to take it in for maintainance once. Since you'll be working with the elements find out how the DVX weathers in the weather.
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dvx 102b ...or the 100b ntsc version that you are using
is mean for tougther weather condition.
 
Johnnyfive said:
the sony, in my opinion, is built a bit sturdier and it takes quite a bruising. I haven't really taken my DVX100 into extreme conditions, but the pd-170 has been dropped, submitted to water, dust, sand and it kept on tickin. Just needed to take it in for maintainance once. Since you'll be working with the elements find out how the DVX weathers in the weather.
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I would have to totally agree with this, I own a VX2000 which is basically a PD-150 without DV Cam and XLR's. I have dropped the VX a few times and it took a licking and kept on ticking and I was shooting outdoors in various extreme environments which is why the camera was dropped. I Also own a DVX100A and I was shooting in a night club one night and I got bumped into hard and the camera fell from my hands, unlike the sony the DVX was Dead. The Power-board and battery plate broke, fixing it costed me $875. That being said the DVX is better than the sony in all other areas other than durability.
 
I ride and produce a lot of am videos. I would HIGHLY recommend the DVX for bmx videos. With all of the extra controls in the DVX (not to mention 24p) you can really create stylized, creative videos, and that's what it's all about these days. Think about all the professional bmx videos you've seen. They're all the same, with different riding. Now think of all the skateboard videos. They all have a creative aspect which sets them apart from one another, and really makes a huge difference to the viewer. Go with the DVX.

Ps, I used to have a VX-2000, and since I've upgraded my work has improved a ton.
 
dvx_yaaaaaay said:
With all of the extra controls in the DVX (not to mention 24p) you can really create stylized, creative videos, and that's what it's all about these days.
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I get yoru point, but I woldn't recommend 24p for bmx filming though... watch the Vult DVD to see why. Then see the difference in Shook's new release, "It's on".

do you shoot in parks much? any place I can see some of your videos?
 
If you were referring to me, no, I never ride park, pure street. If you are familiar with Volume Bikes then you will know their new video is almost out, On The Clock. The trailer shows that it is by FAR the best BMX video (creatively) ever made. In an interview Brian Castillo (Team owner) said the entire video was shot with a 100A. If used properly, BMX looks so good in 24p.

If you're saying it's no good because of the fast action and slow framerate, take a look at the odyssey video (and pretty much every skateboard video ever). They shoot creative segments using 8mm film cameras, with a framerate between 15 and 18fps. Those parts look awesome.
 
As someone who went from a TRV900 to a DVX100b myself, here is what I think.

Sony cams are sometimes ridiculed as too "user-friendly," but in my opinion, they simply have better design and *much* better interface setup. I'm a computer geek from since I was 8 years old on the Win 3.0 286 machines, so I'm no neophyte, but I appreciate little things that Sony's done to make their cameras operate like an extention of your hand, like a dial-with-button instead of a little joystick that you have to click a million times to get through the massive menu, and making a 3-way switch (off/Cam/VTR), instead of a 2-way (off/on) plus a toggle button (Cam/VTR).

If you're gonna be shooting action shots, then you won't need 24p, and you won't need the DVX's wide array of manual image/gamma/etc. settings, because you can stylize in post, and you'll be pretty much 100% run-n-gun.

Forgive me for saying this, but it's not like you are framing and white balancing every shot in a BMX movie, so any advantage that the DVX has in image quality is balanced by the fact that every now and then there will be a giant floodlight in the cam, or a Pepsi truck wizzing by, or you won't have time to focus just right. I really don't think that an adjustable gamma knee is of any import to people who watch a BMX video anyway. (I used to rollerblade, and I made some films with my TRV900, so I know a little of what I'm talking about. People liked my videos, but they never cared about the editing or the color correction I painstakingly did)

I can also say that Sony builds thier cameras like tanks, and they fit a lot of electronics in a tight package, and I mean tight. My TRV900 has seen some pretty rough days, including about a million hard drops to the floor, one so hard that it knocked the CCD sensor loose from inside the casing. Some crazy glue and a Qtip (not kidding), and she was good as new.

Anyway, the durability of the 900 didn't help teach me to take care of my expensive things, and so while I'm treating my DVX like a newborn child, I'm a bit frustrated that it just doesn't *feel* like I payed 3 grand for it after being spoiled with my TRV900. There are little places and pieces where I can "flex" my DVX, and it scares me to death. And what's with that OIS clicking noise?? Yes, yes, we all know that it's normal and nothing to worry about, but really, why on earth is it there?

As for image quality, I love "Sony color," but really, it's the DVX or go home, no question. But it looks like you have different needs. You want a light, durable camera with good low light performance. You want a camera that can "get the shot" and turn on a dime to catch another, and the DVX ain't that camera. Let me say that I know nothing about the PD170, but it looks like with the DVX you'll be paying for a lot of things you won't use. I might think about sticking with the TRV, it's still the best camera of it's generation (the GL2 can suck it), it's LCD is exactly the same size as the DVX's (resolution's lower, of course), and at 8 years old, it still resells at up to 60% of it's original price.

I've never worried about low-light, but you have tighter restrictions than I ever did with my TRV900, and the DVX is quite wonderful, a dream even, in a dark room. Anyone have some general advice on other cams with good low-light performance?
 
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dvx_yaaaaaay said:
If you are familiar with Volume Bikes then you will know their new video is almost out, On The Clock. The trailer shows that it is by FAR the best BMX video (creatively) ever made.
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I just watched the promo, and the only thing that I noticed out of the ordenary were the clock graphics used for the intro of each rider, which was nice, but not enough to really "set it appart" in my eyes. The Shadow video has some sweet rider intros too. I think Shook videos are the only videos that REALLY stand out when it comes to creative editing and such.
If I've overlooked somethign in the promo please tell me, I feel as if i must have.
dvx_yaaaaaay said:
If you're saying it's no good because of the fast action and slow framerate, take a look at the odyssey video (and pretty much every skateboard video ever). They shoot creative segments using 8mm film cameras, with a framerate between 15 and 18fps. Those parts look awesome.
Click to expand...

Maybe the Vult camera guy had the shutter speed up to high, thus making it look too strobey, i don't know... and those 16mm and 8mm segments are fine, but if you watched an entire video made from that it may loose it's "neat" appeal.
 
The Noble Robot said:
If you're gonna be shooting action shots, then you won't need 24p, and you won't need the DVX's wide array of manual image/gamma/etc. settings, because you can stylize in post, and you'll be pretty much 100% run-n-gun.
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I'd love to play with the gamma settings to see if I could produce a better image, and while I always have it set for manual white ballance, shutter and exposer, I don't need the audio gain and such.

The Noble Robot said:
(I used to rollerblade, and I made some films with my TRV900, so I know a little of what I'm talking about. People liked my videos, but they never cared about the editing or the color correction I painstakingly did)
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In the bmx would it seems we have hit a new generation wanting and appricating more of the little things about the video, people are often getting more critical of editing or poor angles. sometimes I would have plenty of time to set up a shot, but during competitions you are right, something is abuot to happen and i need to get it quick.

The Noble Robot said:
I might think about sticking with the TRV, it's still the best camera of it's generation (the GL2 can suck it), it's LCD is exactly the same size as the DVX's (resolution's lower, of course), and at 8 years old, it still resells at up to 60% of it's original price.
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My TRV has some serious issues... it would be around very much longer.
 
Did you watch the trailer on Def Grip? That's the good one.

I forgot about the shadow video, they use dvx and it looks amazing, so good.
 
dvx_yaaaaaay said:
Did you watch the trailer on Def Grip? That's the good one.

I forgot about the shadow video, they use dvx and it looks amazing, so good.
Click to expand...
no i didnt see it on def grip, nor can i findit on there.... a link please?
 
Whats up guys. I ride and film bmx too. I sold my VX1000 a couple of months ago and now I'm on the saving path for a DVX. I think the colours and 24p can be a great thing for bmx. It will allow us to (relatively)economically step up the quality and cinematic appeal of the videos. I have seen some great skateboarding and bmx footage come from a DVX in both 24p, and standard shooting mode. I cant wait until I can afford mine. I also think that with a 35mm adapter you can get some great results for more dramatic intro's and special features.
 
I own both cameras....
Heres my thoughts.

Size-PD170
Durability-PD170
LOW-Light-PD170
Size-PD-170

Picture Quality-DVX


Now I would never think of using anything other than a dvx for any shoots I go on with a tripod, anything I have to "run and gun" I take the PD with me. Simply b/c its a smaller stronger package. Aside from the 24P and the colors and picture quality of the DVX I wouldnt use anything but a PD170.
The PD's are so versatile, plus you can pick up a used one or a PD150 for cheaper than a used dvx.

Id say go with the PD b/c of the conditions you listed. THey shot jackass the movie in large part with the PD150 and you can watch them drop, toss, kick, etc. THe part where they flip the golf cart you can see a PD150 rolling along on the ground etc. The dvx can NOT take abuse. I dont hardly touch the dvx and Im bringin it in for repairs. THe DVX is also kinda bulky for one hand holding low shots etc.

All the issues I have with the PD170 such as color saturation and picture quality, can be adjusted in post anyhow....and normally in skate, bike, etc videos they usually load up the post production....
 
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