Dvx100a 24p And 24pa Question!!!

R

ROKOKO

Well-known member
hello all,

I hope you guys can help. I've been on the internet looking for info on this camera regarding the issues with 24p and 24pa shooting modes. If anyone can snwer these questions in detail i'll be grateful.

1. is there a major difference between 24p and 24pa?

2. are BOTH of these modes really juddery as some say when viewed on television? How come this issue is not mentioned often as that is a major downer.

3. Can this judder be removed if it really is a problem in 24p and 24pa?

4. is it true that the 24p and pa modes cause sound advance/delay issues? If so, is this a bad problem and can it be fixed? Again this seems like a problem that should be more discussed if it really does exist as it is another major down point for potential purchasers. I did hear the 100A does not really have this sound problem. Is that so?

5. To play a movie on tv, which mode is best? Is 24pa better than 24p for getting the film look? Bad judder is really unacceptable but if i want to go to film in the end, i hear 24pa is the best. but then again if i do not and i've shot in 24pa, will the judder be that much more pronounced than 24p? Will it be unwatchable?

Confused as why'd they make modes in a camera that are not watchable on tv and sound is off synch when it is a consumer product that most consumers would be viewing on their tv sets.


Thanks
 
1. There's no major difference between 24p and 24pA, just a slight difference in perceived cadence.

2. No. 24 FPS is 24 FPS. The cadence is the same as film. Both will have identical cadences when viewed as a 24P MPEG2 file on a DVD or broadcast at 60i with a 2:3:2:3 pulldown added.

3. Not anymore than it can (or should) be removed from film.

4. The original DVX has a slight CONSTANT offset between sound and image that is automatically or easily adjusted for in post. The DVX100a no longer has this issue.

5. 24pA is only for capture, not distribution. For distribution on DVD, a 24P MPEG2 will look great. For broadcast or tape distribution, you'd use a standard NTSC DV 60i format with a 2:3:2:3 pulldown added.

I'm not sure where you're getting your information, but it's incorrect. There are absolutely no fundamental issues or problems with the DVX. It's also not a consumer camera, but I think you answered your own question. How would have so many DVX's been sold if it had these glaring problems?
 
Judder

Judder

ROKOKO said:
(snipped for brevity)

3. Can this judder be removed if it really is a problem in 24p and 24pa?
Click to expand...

Check your shutter setting . . . When I first started using my 100A I was a little confused about that. If you are mistakenly shooting with a setting of 1/24th of a second (as I did) you will have to move the camera R-E-A-L slow. Check and see, if that's what you done move it up. Hope this helps.
 
Thanks

Thanks

Yeah, my thoughts exactly. I was reading the stuff on this forum ont he internet and it just made no sense to me. i saw it a in a few places and was thinking, how the hell could this cam be getting such rave reviews and sold so many units if it has these issues. I need a camera for a doc film and want it to look filmlike. It will be guerrilla style so it doesn't have to be 35mm stupendous. I was concerned about the 'judder' allegations.

I take it then that with a 100a, 24p and NOT 24pa is the way to go? Or should I just use 24pa to get the closest to 24fps on a digital format? 24pa has no judder right?

Thanks again, may have just been people talking about what they didn't really know about.
 
oh i forgot...

oh i forgot...

oh i forgot to ask as well....

Let's say I want to convert to film for festivals 24p or 24pa and why?

Let's say I want to project digitally from say a digi beta. 24p or 24pa and why?

a lot of questions I know. thanks for the answers. hopefully this will also help out a few others who have the same queries.
 
i have never really seen a difference with 24p or 24pa. Barry would be the one who could answer this better, but I would just say shoot with what YOU are most comfortable with, may that be 24p or 24pa. If you are going to transfer to film, make sure your shutter speed is at 1/60th. it helps with the transfer of 24p to film (atleast I'm pretty sure it does.)
 
ROKOKO said:
I take it then that with a 100a, 24p and NOT 24pa is the way to go?
Click to expand...
24p vs. 24pa is an editing decision. If you're going to be editing in a 60i timeline, shoot 24p. If you're editing on a 24p timeline, shoot 24pa. Other than that it really makes very little difference.

24pa has no judder right?
Click to expand...
Of course it does -- it has exactly the same judder as film does. If you know how to move the camera like a film camera, you'll get results that look like film. If you wave it around like an amateur videographer, you'll see incredible amounts of strobing and judder. It's the very nature of low-frame-rate acquisition. It's not a PROBLEM, it's a direct simulation of how film works. It's in fact the reason we bought the camera.

If you want to shoot 24p successfully, it is incumbent upon you to respect the frame rate, respect the technology, and learn to use it properly. Those who don't know how to shoot 24p properly, and who expect to be able to just act like they always did with interlaced cameras, will be in for a big (and disappointing) surprise. Those who take the time and the care to learn and use it properly, will produce mind-blowingly awesome filmlike footage.

The camera works perfectly. It's up to the user to use it properly.
 
If your NLE can remove the 2:3:3:2 (24pA) pulldown and you can edit on a 23.97 timeline, then my opinion is that you should *always* shoot 24pA. There's no reason not to, since you can reinsert a 2:3:2:3 pulldown for 60i or just produce a native 24P DVD. This is true for *any* output, including a filmout or digibeta transfer.

If this all seems a bit intimidating, then shoot straight 24p Normal and edit on a 29.97 timeline--you'll get the cadence of film and you won't need to worry about removing or inserting pulldowns. But trust me, removing one pulldown and reinserting another pulldown is trivial, once you've done it once. I suggest you visit the appropriate NLE forum to get the specifics for your NLE.
 
Barry, you're awesome...

Nice clear and to the point answers. Just what I needed. I will be using FCP 5 or 4 on a powerbook G4 for mobility on the doc shoot with a dvx100a most likely. Messing with pulldown is no prob for me if it does produce a better image/medium to bump up to film or watch on tv/dvd. If no difference i won't bother.

I expect FCP 5 and/or 4 will be capable of doing all the things you mention.

You can actually visit the website of my first film I completed this year called LIMBO. It was shot on a canon XL1S DV and sent to FILMLOOK in LA to convert to a film like 24fps. It came out really well but fromw hat i've seen with dvx100a, the dvx will be far superior.

website: www.limbomovie.com (flash & quicktime required)
 
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