DVX100 modification HD 4:4:4 information request

I

inefab

Active member
I've heard about a modification called "andromeda" that provide us
RGB 4:4:4 color HD pictures, directly out of the DVX. But the firm who
made the modification is close now. I wondering if i can find some technical
informations to achieve this modification myself.

i got 2 DVX (pal) and 1 GH13, i love the "GH13 way of life" when i'm
working on indie film, but DVX are very good and i think that it could be possible
nowaday, to perform this cam with the help of the community...

Thanks from France, ( and not proud of that ! )
 
i have some friends in Montpellier :) i was there last summer, also remi gaillard is from there, yes?

now, news on the Andromeda - hmmm... just google man.... but honestly at this point , there is not much need to do that converstion as it was expensive at the time and now cameras are better even cheap ones...
 
Yes we have our international "Remi Gaillard".
I know that we have good cam and affordable on the market, and a lot of possibilities. But we are on DVX user or not ?
The specification of this mod is that provide RGB 4:4:4 color pictures, and there is no cam under 10000$ wich is capable to do that.
Then it is not exactly HD pictures but an intermediate resolution between hd 720 and 1080, output files are .tiff sequence and other.
No need to use tape anymore.. no drops etc. It mean that this 10 years old camera can live 10 more... I don't know why
the firm who do that mod stop its activity for years ago, but with the new technologie we've got, i'm sure we can perform a new
mod. I just asking the all community if someone have technical information to start a new "GH13like" project with the cam that give its name to the forum.
have a nice day and "sorry for my english" ( i say that for the first and the last time ) !
 
english is no problem i understand :) and i know what you mean by .. if it last 10, it can go 10 more..and yes it can :) u are right.. i've had my dvx100a since 2003 and im doing my last film on it... but after this.. it is time to retire... its old technology.. time to move to new tech for another 10 years :)

anyway... i think the company went under because there just were not enough customers(but i could be wrong)

i hope you find your answer and i wish i could help you more..but i'm afraid i cant as i dont know much of the specs and such for the ANdromeda... :(

good luck
 
Good morning inefab. I own a few of them and may be able to provide some amount of information. To actually build one yourself though, you'd need expertise in micro-miniature electronics AND software design, as well as knowledge about how to debayer the data.
 
Correct.
The last we heard of him he was working on the "Hydra" modification to the HVX 200, doing roughly the same thing, then bang! no more Hydra, no more Andromeda. There was a huge thread here in the HVX section
I think the company was called Reel-Stream, but I may be mis-remembering.
Dave
 
thanks for correcting me guys

but yah the company was reel-stream

so he got bought out and shelved eh.. thats crappy..... i wodner if he got a job for a big company from that tho.. i would hope....
 
The Andromeda, while fascinating, has had its day and I really don't see much point in someone trying to re-invent that technology for something like a DVX. Yes, you could get 4:4:4 out of it, but only in standard-definition. In HD it was 4:2:0. You could get the same out of practially any HDV camcorder nowadays; when downconverting its 4:2:0 HD down to SD, the comparative color sampling will become more like 4:4:4.

If you wanted to pursue doing something like this on a modern 3-chip HD camera, there might be benefits there, but to do it again for a DVX seems like it would be an incredible amount of energy expended for something that would have very limited appeal in today's market.
 
Barry, I apologize in advance, but I have to disagree with you. I own three of them, and I can tell you that they do record 4:4:4 in HD (1280x720 and higher). The work-flow is difficult, but not much more than what I've heard of the REDs work-flow. Amazing green-screen capture systems. However, I don't think there are that many out there, and all of mine have gone through 2-3 owners.
 
muonwave said:
Barry, I apologize in advance, but I have to disagree with you. I own three of them, and I can tell you that they do record 4:4:4 in HD (1280x720 and higher). The work-flow is difficult, but not much more than what I've heard of the REDs work-flow. Amazing green-screen capture systems. However, I don't think there are that many out there, and all of mine have gone through 2-3 owners.
Click to expand...
It can't do 4:4:4 in 720p. It's starting with a 720x480 sensor. Each chip is 720x480. You can't get more than 720x480 out of a single chip. You can, however, get more than 720x480 out of a three-chip 720x480 system, using spatial offset, but doing so doesn't increase the chroma resolution of each individual chip, only the overall luminance res of all three chips combined.

I asked Juan about this long ago, and he said you could get 4:4:4 from standard-def, or you could get HD but it wouldn't be 4:4:4 (obviously) as it used a spatial-offset pixel shift system to get the additional res.
 
heres a small bit of info if you havnet found much about 4:4:4: aftermarket technology once adapted into the dvx , included is an interveiw with alex ferrari whom never heard f it either.
 
solucion possible

solucion possible

hello friends dvx user look for my experience with cameras not professionals. I know it's hard andromeda acer one I found a somewhat unorthodox solution to make the colors look so 4:4:4 is the issue. andromeda Pimero system is based on the shooting events are recorded on the tape to be recorded when you might wonder as to whether it is the only image that comes directly from the true color and true RGB sensor cable is the s-remember that s-video is not super video video video if not separate. and separates the primary colors. leaving true colors in the catch, unfortunately that is not even an exit grabber that has a more than a usb s.video. what we could do is buy one of those mini laptop economic sofwwarer put a capture as DV and capture live windows and let the colors in RGB, good in terms of resolution you can use sony vegas and force the video so you can capture 720p. that would be a solution even more expensive than andromeda system. forgive my bad English if you do not understand my text also left him a greeting in Spanish.
hola amigos de dvx user miren por mi experiencia con camaras no profecionales. yo se que acer una andromeda es dificil yo encontr una solucion un tanto ortodoxa para hacer los colores 4:4:4 miren asi esta el asunto. pimero el sistema andromeda se basa en que los disparos hechos se graben en la cinta al momento de ser grabados pues ustedes se preguntaran a si es , la unica imagen que llega con colores reales directamente del sensor y en verdadero RGB es el cable de s-video recordemos que s-video no es de super video si no de separado video. y separa los colores primarios. dejando colores verdaderos en las capturas, desgraciadamente que aun no se de un capturador que tenga una salida s.video mas que una usb. lo que se podria hacer es comprar una de esas economicas mini laptop poner un sofwwarer de captura como el windows dv y capturar directamente y dejar los colores en RGB, bueno en cuanto a resolucion puede usar el sony vegas y forzar el video para que pueda capturarlo en 720p. esa seria una solucion aun mas barata que el sistema andromeda. perdonen mi mal ingles si no se entiende mi texto lo dejo en español tambien un saludo
 
Hello John, do you still have one DVX andromeda system for sale...or maybe info/schematics to DIY..? I have some knowledge about electronics and like that DVX look :)
 
Just thought I would chime in here,
Juan was bought out and the Andromeda and subsequent projects were shelved, the tech was bought by who? Who was building a camera system that was coming to market around that time? Hmmmmm, maybe it was some guy who use to make high end sunglasses? Is/was Juan bought out by the then RED folks? I would like to know. I remember Juan said he could not say who due to an NDA. Interesting. I'm probably wrong.
 
MDKfilms said:
Just thought I would chime in here,
Juan was bought out and the Andromeda and subsequent projects were shelved, the tech was bought by who? Who was building a camera system that was coming to market around that time? Hmmmmm, maybe it was some guy who use to make high end sunglasses?
Click to expand...
The whole rationale behind Andromeda was that in the DVX100 the weakest point in the chain was the recording system - Standard Definition DV tape. And remember NTSC DV was only 4:1:1 - not even 4:2:0 as in 50Hz countries. The chipset was capable of better than DV tape was capable of recording and that was what Andromeda took advantage of.

The HVX200 was a different matter. To DVCPROHD file via card the built in recording was roughly capable of recording nearly all the chips could deliver, so the same approach was never going to be able to deliver in the way Andromeda did. It shouldn't be any surprise that Hydra never saw the light of day. And the same goes for pretty well all modern cameras nowadays. So the tech as in Andromeda - in entireity - ceased to be valid. Which is not to say that some features, some patents maybe, weren't of use.

And Barry is quite right about 4:4:4 HD. What 4:4:4 fundamentally means is that the red, green and blue resolutions will all be equal to the luminance resoluion. With 3 720x480 chips, the best you'll get is 720x480 for red, green and blue. So 4:4:4 SD (instead of 4:1:1) and no DV compression. But a RECORDING system may have a higher resolution than ACTUAL resolution off the chip. Think of blowing 16mm up to 35mm. You'll have a 35mm print - but it won't be the same as filming on 35mm in the first place. Same here - you may record 1280x720 with 4:4:4 sampling - but it doesn't mean the front end of the camera will neccessarily do it justice.

And (apologies to Barry, who's heard me go on about this before!) the figures such as 4:2:2 are simply ratios of colour information to luminance - they're not absolutes. So if you think of 4:2:0 1080p, it means potential luminance resolution of up to 1920x1080 and chrominance of 960x540 by definition. So an example of a 4:2:0 system with far better chrominance (let alone luminance!) than a 4:4:4 system based on 720x480.
 
MDKfilms said:
Just thought I would chime in here,
Juan was bought out and the Andromeda and subsequent projects were shelved, the tech was bought by who? Who was building a camera system that was coming to market around that time? Hmmmmm, maybe it was some guy who use to make high end sunglasses? Is/was Juan bought out by the then RED folks? I would like to know. I remember Juan said he could not say who due to an NDA. Interesting. I'm probably wrong.
Click to expand...
Sorry, but you're wrong. He went to work for Panasonic and part of the agreement to employment was the termination of the Andromeda project.
 
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