DVX feature film needs sweetening.
- Thread starter ckalan1
- Start date
wabbit
Evil has Ears
Re: DVX feature film needs sweetening.
Wow nsfilms,
I don't think anyone said you shouldn't work for free if you are starting out, we all did. I wish you guys the best in building your resume. The original concern was over the wording of the post that made it sound as if only professionals should apply. Craig has since clarified this.
I do not think equating volunteer firemen or common social decency to a profession is accurate. A mechanic driving along the road would most likely stop and offer you a ride or some quick help it getting your car started. Ask that same mechanic to fix your transmission for free and I think you will get a not so positive response. I bet if you ask the neighboor's kid who is into cars to fix your transmission you might get somewhere (still need to pay for the parts though). That would be the correct analogy.
Good luck on your venture.
Wow nsfilms,
I don't think anyone said you shouldn't work for free if you are starting out, we all did. I wish you guys the best in building your resume. The original concern was over the wording of the post that made it sound as if only professionals should apply. Craig has since clarified this.
I do not think equating volunteer firemen or common social decency to a profession is accurate. A mechanic driving along the road would most likely stop and offer you a ride or some quick help it getting your car started. Ask that same mechanic to fix your transmission for free and I think you will get a not so positive response. I bet if you ask the neighboor's kid who is into cars to fix your transmission you might get somewhere (still need to pay for the parts though). That would be the correct analogy.
Good luck on your venture.
Jacques_Meov
Carbonite Member
Re: DVX feature film needs sweetening.
CKALAN1, can I come and vid your production in action? A kind of "behind-the-scenes" making-of your dvx feature?
I know that I'd be in for America's Funiest Video final and $100,000 prize when I widdle down everything you're doing with free "help" to a funny 30 second montage!
CKALAN1, can I come and vid your production in action? A kind of "behind-the-scenes" making-of your dvx feature?
I know that I'd be in for America's Funiest Video final and $100,000 prize when I widdle down everything you're doing with free "help" to a funny 30 second montage!
soarprod
Veteran
Re: DVX feature film needs sweetening.
Thank goodness that Dave is speaking for us all. ;D
Craig, have you actually considered the amount of money you are asking someone to donate to your project? Figure it is about 10+ hours per min of final film soundtrack (dialogue, fx, foley, BG's, mixing) - a realistic estimate. That is 1200 hours for a feature. At minimum wage, that is $6,900. A better estimate of say $25/hr = $30,000.
Now, not only are the people not making money working on the project, they are giving away the potential to make money doing other projects. That is $60,000, because they are incurring cost to their own income. If peter jackson said please work on my next project for free, I would tell him that I need my fixed costs covered (living costs, food, housing, misc.) before I would say yes. For those of us who have worked for free, it is hard to bite on to a short but a feature is unimaginable. I would never ask people to commit to something so demanding. This is why it is so insulting to ask even a student for such a commitment. Now, if you got 30 students to work on it this would be another story. But except for USC and a few others, you are not going to get professional talent from students.
-Phil
Thank goodness that Dave is speaking for us all. ;D
Craig, have you actually considered the amount of money you are asking someone to donate to your project? Figure it is about 10+ hours per min of final film soundtrack (dialogue, fx, foley, BG's, mixing) - a realistic estimate. That is 1200 hours for a feature. At minimum wage, that is $6,900. A better estimate of say $25/hr = $30,000.
Now, not only are the people not making money working on the project, they are giving away the potential to make money doing other projects. That is $60,000, because they are incurring cost to their own income. If peter jackson said please work on my next project for free, I would tell him that I need my fixed costs covered (living costs, food, housing, misc.) before I would say yes. For those of us who have worked for free, it is hard to bite on to a short but a feature is unimaginable. I would never ask people to commit to something so demanding. This is why it is so insulting to ask even a student for such a commitment. Now, if you got 30 students to work on it this would be another story. But except for USC and a few others, you are not going to get professional talent from students.
-Phil
Jacques_Meov
Carbonite Member
Re: DVX feature film needs sweetening.
NSFILMS, so let me get this straight....if I'm driving along the road on the way to work and I see someone broken down on the side of the road and they tell me they're going to Hoboken, NJ, I'm in LA, and I DON'T OFFER TO TAKE THEM, I'm an ass?
Geez, I have three cards here, one is an ace of spades, and two are red jacks. I'll double your money if you can find the ace!
NSFILMS, so let me get this straight....if I'm driving along the road on the way to work and I see someone broken down on the side of the road and they tell me they're going to Hoboken, NJ, I'm in LA, and I DON'T OFFER TO TAKE THEM, I'm an ass?
Geez, I have three cards here, one is an ace of spades, and two are red jacks. I'll double your money if you can find the ace!
Re: DVX feature film needs sweetening.
LOL, Whew...You guys are funny. I thought you guys were serious with your rants on how special you are and how valuable your time is. I mean, it must be worth thousands (as was mentioned) so I don't blame you for not wanting to give up all your available time....
Whew, I feel for dvxuser.com. I hope you offer them a discount for all of the valuable time it's been taking from you. Also, you may want to send a bill to your internet company because it's obvious that you spend waaay to much time online. It just has to be taking that valuable time away from you which could be spent some other way.
If the above paragraph pissed you off, good. That means you may see the point of this whole question of asking if someone wanted to help out. If you're NOT TOO busy browsing the web, watching TV, going to the show or playing around with your systems there is something available for you to help out on. Again, if you're NOT doing anything else why not do something productive and in a field that you love to work in?
LOL, Whew...You guys are funny. I thought you guys were serious with your rants on how special you are and how valuable your time is. I mean, it must be worth thousands (as was mentioned) so I don't blame you for not wanting to give up all your available time....
Whew, I feel for dvxuser.com. I hope you offer them a discount for all of the valuable time it's been taking from you. Also, you may want to send a bill to your internet company because it's obvious that you spend waaay to much time online. It just has to be taking that valuable time away from you which could be spent some other way.
If the above paragraph pissed you off, good. That means you may see the point of this whole question of asking if someone wanted to help out. If you're NOT TOO busy browsing the web, watching TV, going to the show or playing around with your systems there is something available for you to help out on. Again, if you're NOT doing anything else why not do something productive and in a field that you love to work in?
Dave_Fisk
Well-known member
Re: DVX feature film needs sweetening.
OK OK. This is getting old. Rather than try to be argumentative, I will attempt to be constructive.
One thing that would probably work is that if instead of getting one sound person do the entire post process, farm out seperate scenes to different people, or have one person do dialogue, another do hard FX, another do BG's, just like a real feature. If someone asked me to do some specific sounds, weather it be just some guns, explosions, or whatever...something that I could fire out in a weekend, then why not do it for free if I have nothing else going on. Maybe this is the intention of the original poster. Honestly, since I did NOT call, I don't know. Since I am now too busy to do something like this, I won't call. That's OK.
-Dave
OK OK. This is getting old. Rather than try to be argumentative, I will attempt to be constructive.
One thing that would probably work is that if instead of getting one sound person do the entire post process, farm out seperate scenes to different people, or have one person do dialogue, another do hard FX, another do BG's, just like a real feature. If someone asked me to do some specific sounds, weather it be just some guns, explosions, or whatever...something that I could fire out in a weekend, then why not do it for free if I have nothing else going on. Maybe this is the intention of the original poster. Honestly, since I did NOT call, I don't know. Since I am now too busy to do something like this, I won't call. That's OK.
-Dave
Re: DVX feature film needs sweetening.
This is a good idea. You are right. That is the way we did it at my studio. I am glad you brought this up. What I need to do now is find five people who want to work free. "That was a joke." Ok I have a weird sense of humor.
Actually, I did have one volunteer call me and we talked about this precise method of doing the project. He and I talked extensively about the requirements.
If he chooses to work on the project he plans on getting a several other people to work on it with him.
This is a good idea. You are right. That is the way we did it at my studio. I am glad you brought this up. What I need to do now is find five people who want to work free. "That was a joke." Ok I have a weird sense of humor.
Actually, I did have one volunteer call me and we talked about this precise method of doing the project. He and I talked extensively about the requirements.
If he chooses to work on the project he plans on getting a several other people to work on it with him.
wabbit
Evil has Ears
Re: DVX feature film needs sweetening.
Can't believe this thread won't die. ;D
Having separate people work on different tracks is good idea but unless you can supervise and coordinate the process it could get messy really quick. If you set up the DAW and have them work at your office it will probably go fairly smooth.
NSfilms, please let it go. You can make whatever decisions you want with your film career or hobby but understand that most of us have been through this stuff and are just trying to offer help to those starting out. Professionals offer free ADVICE to those coming up all the time, we remember all the help we got (and continue to) from fellow professionals and want to return the favor. If you have a different opinion of how to handle your life and career that's fine; more power to you.
Can't believe this thread won't die. ;D
Having separate people work on different tracks is good idea but unless you can supervise and coordinate the process it could get messy really quick. If you set up the DAW and have them work at your office it will probably go fairly smooth.
NSfilms, please let it go. You can make whatever decisions you want with your film career or hobby but understand that most of us have been through this stuff and are just trying to offer help to those starting out. Professionals offer free ADVICE to those coming up all the time, we remember all the help we got (and continue to) from fellow professionals and want to return the favor. If you have a different opinion of how to handle your life and career that's fine; more power to you.
Beat Takeshi
Two-Hip Shakur
Re: DVX feature film needs sweetening.
I browsed through these posts and noticed that one guy is spending a **** load of money on equipment and then hes using students for actors and crew instead of spending the money on experienced people. You are offering use of good equipment to people that dont know how to use it, why use good equipment if you are only going to get amature results from it? Why not hire people that know what they are doing and at least the movie will look good of anything. Im just mentioning these things because its against common sense more than what was originally posted about the "free" audio. There are certain reasons one might want to do this but if they dont call they will never know.
I browsed through these posts and noticed that one guy is spending a **** load of money on equipment and then hes using students for actors and crew instead of spending the money on experienced people. You are offering use of good equipment to people that dont know how to use it, why use good equipment if you are only going to get amature results from it? Why not hire people that know what they are doing and at least the movie will look good of anything. Im just mentioning these things because its against common sense more than what was originally posted about the "free" audio. There are certain reasons one might want to do this but if they dont call they will never know.
