DVX 100 B "Pict enhancements + lower cost" ?

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I think it is amazing.

DVX 100B announced well over a week ago in Europe and on a Panasonic web site and not one word in what probably is an even bigger market (the U.S. and Canada) and on a website that is called "DVX USER" which has Panasonic product and marketing reps as members.

It take it back. It's not amazing...it's bizarre.

Jan, who is the Product Manager for the DVX 100 and who has always been so forth coming and helpful answering tons questions has been asked about the 100B after the IBC show and Panaonic 100B press release in several of the forums and she has been mute.

In fact she just answered several questions today in the forum about processing rebates for the 100A. As has been stated before. The camera is out of the bag, why ignore us?
 
jrv3034 said:
How much does an XL2 cost?

And does it let you move up to HD?

$6000 is a fair price for 16:9 SD with DVX useability, and the option of full-out HD down the road.
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I think it's a great price. For someone like myself and quite a few others here; however, it's way over our current budget. I'm sure all of us would like HVX's. It looks like an amazing camera.

I've got the cash ready to go on a DVX. I'm just waiting to see if the 100B has the mini-jet pack jr. option.
 
I'm in the same position as everyone else... money in hand waiting to decide A or B.

My question is this: Panasonic has bumped up the rebate and included the goodies for the A model. Obviously they are trying to clear the stock before the B comes out. At the same time they have kept quiet on the price of the B. Why? Is their thinking that no one will want to buy the A once B comes out? I don't see too big of a feture difference that makes B a must get, so the price must be very comparable if no one will want to save a few bucks and get the A. There was even a note in the Euro press release about reduction of price. Another thing is that Jan has been mysteriously quiet on this topic. Judging by her character I don't think she is choosing to ignore us, or simply hasn't seen this thread. Obviously Pany has instructed her not to say anything on the topic. Seems to me they really want to get rid of as much A's before the B's come out, otherwise the left over ones will be dead stock.

Is it worth risking and getting the A? The flip side of that is I know when companies "optimize" the production line and part manufacturing process in a bid to increase the profits, the quality of the units usually goes down. Don't know abot Panasonic though, I'd hate to think this was the case. Still, this marketing game they are playing does not make that seem like a far fetched scenario.

Am I too far in conspiracy land now? Should I just give up rational thought and wait it out?
 
Well, the good news for Panasonic is they will have very little if any 100A dead stock. A/B pretty much same stock bins, suppliers. My take is it's easier for them to ramp down an A production line to pick up a Pal 100B intro while ramping up a 200 line. They may have a bit of a bottle neck going dumping A, phasing into pal/ntsc B with decent demand for 200. But let's face it--the 200 will never sell like the 100 series because at that price it will leave prosumer/entry indie behind--focusing on broadcast/fully functioning (making$$$) indie market.

And I suspect--if I were sitting in Jan's seat--a lot of heat coming my way if the best they can do for decent 200 production is Jan come Feb. That's nearly 10 months after an announcement. That reminds me of the retro Ford Thunderbird rollout fiasco--then they had even more problems. If JVC 100U didn't have split screen/pixel problems while Canon waited to introduce its XLHD, Panasonic would be very nervous. Like I said: Tie a new product to a dedicated media and it's a dice roll.

For all the HD glam EVS has 74 200s on order; B/H probably has a few, too. Unfortunately, it'll take more than a few hundred cameras to establish and firm up P2HD connection--no matter how good it is.

I'm being positive about it. (Heh, since I don't need a 200 I can watch other's success/misery unfold... :-) If they run out of A stock hopefully they'll offer at least a nominal B rebate for those who may lose out on getting an A before Oct 31 deadline. The B price/availability thingy is irritating. The marketing strategy from their standpoint makes sense--but it IS a jerk around for those with money in hand. I wouldn't think there would be much of an ntsc price reduction. (Don't look for a wheel barrow when a bucket will do.) In a global economy it doesn't make much sense anymore to have separate pal/ntsc announcements. Panasonic won't even be at IBC as an exhibitor next year. I can understand the trade show commitments and speculative hype but increasingly it gets old. NAB, IBC--whatever--pick one and follow thru with all the details. That's my take.

I think the quality will still be reasonably high. The biggest plus between A/B is that it is really the same hardware. The tweaks lie in firmware.

What the hades--how can one go wrong with a 100A and $500 rebate?

B is nice, icing; so is 16:9 poly mask for A lcd. The mask is $4.95. EVS sells them. Shoe polish to make it all black is cheap. (Personally, I think white with a lipstick smiley would work nicely too--who says we can't jazz up our camera?)

In the meantime let's hope they can firm up the details--at least let dealers in on the secret. Let them leak it out. That's the way it was done in the past :Selective Leaks: but one would NEVER imply Nikon or Canon would EVER under ANY circumstances do such a thing! And of course, an automobile manufacturer would NEVER reveal ANYTHING prior to an auto show. Suuurreee.

It's time to let the saphire black cat out of the bag, Jan! (My black/white trim cat is staring at this message as I write...)

Let's all be positive: 100,A,B good camera. We all want good cameras. Panasonic has done that.
 
:beer: They got a 100b!!??? Does it have 16x zoom and 16:9 ? OOOPPPPsss, I guess not. Is it still going to be $3600 with a $500 rebate? But then, that means I can get 100a even cheaper. Huummm.....:beer:
 
They probably wouldn't need a $500 rebate if they lowered the price somewhat. 100A sold on street for average of 15 percent off $4k list--about $3400 give or take. If they lowered the price somewhat, did same 15 percent off list it would sell for 3-3.2k with no rebate. Lots of room for incentive rebates as the present iteration of 100 series winds down, competition emerges. The GL2 has had $250 rebates for nearly 2 years. That's unheard of. With lower production costs due to the success of the 100 series, very little hardware change--mostly firmware--the 100 series is making money hand over fist.

The 100A with rebate is in the $27-2800 range plus goodies/extras. Hard to knock that. The 100 series will be useful tool for at least 2-3 more years. The design is a good design. There's no reason why they can't retool the chassis it in a modular form. Sure beats anything I've seen in a hand held--other than JVC but that all one can expect with an interchangeable lens setup. (Obviously not real keen on 200 design...)

A Sidebar: You know, the JVC looks alot like the old Sony evcX10 8mm with a C mount that Sony Security Div put out in '90. I have a framed pic of it. It wasn't 15 years ahead of its time; it's taken 15 years for the indie market to emerge in enough numbers that it can be treated as a broadcast niche. Thus, interchangeable lenses. Too bad they all couldn't have agreed on a C mount standard. Sony obviously pulled it off in '90. Then it got silly. Maybe one of these days I'll scan that Sony x10 ad, throw it up. It's a real eye opener. Black Box with a 14x zoom, interchangeable viewfinder--still lenses, zooms, the shebang; whole enchilada. Boy did Sony Broadcast kill that camera fast! Security Division way ahead of Consumer and Broadcast divisions. Pretty funny how it leaked into the mainstream under the corporate fog.

I can still dream of the 100 series chassis with a C mount and HD. What do you think Canon might be thinking about the next GL2 iteration--maybe a camera that compliments the XL series and interchangeable lenses? Hmmm. Interesting. Might just see my 100 series HD yet!
 
turk said:
I can still dream of the 100 series chassis with a C mount and HD.
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You don't have to dream about it, you can buy it. (well, not yet, but they have announced plans to make a C mount adapter for the HD100).
 
Yesterday I saw a working NTSC dvx100b in the broadcast and cable fair in Brazil. It was connected to a monitor beside many other panasonic procams.
I was able to play with it a little bit, and looked just like the 100a in a new chassis (which, by the way, rules). The scene dial is really odd, I found it too hard to move.
Browsing the menus (new style, same feel) I saw the same features, same gamma and matrix options. Under display setup, there is the LCD aspect switcher (auto, 4:3 and 16:9) which wasn't working.
After playing with the camera quite a long time, I decided to buy a dvx100a (just did it). I only wish it could be black safari!
 
>Another thing is that Jan has been mysteriously quiet on this topic. Judging by her character I don't think she is choosing to ignore us, or simply hasn't seen this thread. Obviously Pany has instructed her not to say anything on the topic.

You are way over the top in conspiracy land. I am swamped and just able to pick up a moment between customers at the IFP on a wireless connection.

The price on the DVX100B is $3995. It will be available at the end of October. Many of the features are in the IBC thread, but Barry and Jarred have something cooking that should launch next week or so.

Hope that helps,

Jan
 
He speaks! She speaks! 100B speaks! $3995/end/Oct!

He speaks! She speaks! 100B speaks! $3995/end/Oct!

Barry, whooops, my error. I meant the DVX100C with HD and C mount. Get it? 100"C", C mount, HD. I wouldn't dead end the dvx100 series just because of 200. It's too good a design, footprint and form factor. The only thing I've seen better is the 100-JVC.

I know, I know...what have I been smoking this morning. I just can't help looking at the framed evcx10 ad on my desk, realizing that in 15 years we've come full circle. The x10 shoulder brace is a classic: Pistol grip, double telescoping, shoulder pad. It's all so funny--this perpetual reinventing the wheel for indie cameras. The broadcast cameras have all pretty much looked the same for 2 decades.

IMHO I think the dvx is a near perfect form factor design--for what it is. Prior to the dvx Panasonic was all over the form factor horizon with gizmoized 3 ccd prosumer cameras. The dvx100 line is the only Panasonic success story in their entire prosumer/indie history. I'd build a shrine for it, bow down to it. (I'll bet Jan has a dvx shrine in her home!)

It's rare that a product does this well from the get-go. I think B will do just fine--maybe with a nominal carryover rebate from A to stoke new sales, appease delayed sales--until anyone comes along that can trump it in its price/feature range. That's the good news of a modular approach after getting the form factor right. It just seems to me that this is a rare instance when someone got it right--literally out of the box.

I keep looking at the 100...thinking...why not just add a C mount to this puppy, HD chips...see where it goes. Don't need P2. It's merely a card carrier. Big deal. Add it as an adapter. Already painted it black. Nice. Leave the 200 for people more inclined toward serious indie/broadcast.

So I eagerly await the B price and availability--just to see how Panasonic will handle the transition--see how much they've learned in the brave new world. No one will break down the door for B but it will serve its purpose and worthy "wait and see" 100 series continuation.

In the meantime, the 100 series box is no hardware/firmware box to liesurely cast aside...

Jan: heh...no conspiracy theory...just a need for fill in the blanks info. (Obviously where there is interest there is...money.) Thanks for the info! We'll see what Jarred has cooking--check with IFP update.
 
The eu site pretty good site--lots of info. Nothing on usa/ntsc site.

Panny eu press release quote: "With the release of the P2miniCam, prices for all Panasonics SD mini DVs has been brought down making production on these high quality units much more cost effective." The word "all" is distressing. Maybe all pal...since ntsc is still 3995.

IBC press release with most recent info:

http://panasonic-broadcast.com/inde..._to=5&show_long=1&fromshort=1&display=default
 
For me the real question concerns the "improved color reproduction" mentioned for the B. Is this a hardware or firmware upgrade? If the latter, will it possible to update the firmware on an A (which is often done with digital still cameras). My guess is we won't have answers to these questions until end of October, once the A rebate expires and the stock is depleted.
 
Jan_Crittenden said:
>The price on the DVX100B is $3995. It will be available at the end of October. Many of the features are in the IBC thread, but Barry and Jarred have something cooking that should launch next week or so.

Hope that helps,

Jan
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I anxiously await to see what the Master Chefs of DVXUSER prepare. Could it be a hands-on review? Thanks for finally shutting us up, Jan.
 
Good points. I too would liked to see more camcorder firmware updates instead of waiting for upgrades dedicated to hardware--purchasing a new unit. Especially in the low end broadcast/indie market where 10k begins to look more like entry level (HVX, Avid, monitors, gizmos, capture/storage, etc.). The still image industry really has this together. They discovered long ago that it isn't just xyz megapixels and optics that creats good images. Firmware important. 100B looks more like frimware update--minor hardware.

We can't much complain. Go talk to the digital EOS guy with two quality zooms--10k on the shoulder.

For all the 24p talk methinks gamma curve adjustments et al easily equally important with Lieca, DV--it's a unit. That's what makes any camera remarkable.

So there's not much to know outside IBC release, really. What you see is what you get for $3995 from A/B--since Jan stated the price will be the same. No surprises here.
 
Jan_Crittenden said:
The price on the DVX100B is $3995. It will be available at the end of October. Many of the features are in the IBC thread, but Barry and Jarred have something cooking that should launch next week or so.
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Looks like the statement from Panasonic that the cost of "ALL Mini-DV cameras" are being reduced due to production cost savings is not true. Why on earth make such a bold statement in a press release? I know this is from a European Panasonic web site but the DVX 100 cameras are made in the same factory aren't they? Is there a European factory that can make the Pal cameras cheaper than the NSTC cameras?

If Jan is correct that the cost of a 100B is going to be $4,000.00 I think many consumers are going to be going to other manufactures. If it had a 16X9 chip then 4K might be reasonable.

As a consumer I think the retail MSRP price point of this camera on the top end should be 2,995 with a street price of at least a hunderd or two lower. Sony, JVC and Canon might be jumping for joy over this announcement. But I'm still perplexed about announcing a lower price and then not following through with it.

I said that I would be the first in line at EVS to get the 'B', but if there isn't a substantial discount I think I'm going to have to take that statement back.
 
Don't forget there's still the 100A with the $500 rebate--takes the price down to 2.9k range at EVS, elsewhere. There are good options...till the end of the Oct rebate. After that--who knows?!

Not the best wording for what amounts to be world wide press release--should have read "selected" rather than "all mini-dv"...

Come to think of it--there must be some interest in the A/B thingy...over 20,000 dvxuser views on this specific subject.
 
>Come to think of it--there must be some interest in the A/B thingy...over 20,000 dvxuser >views on this specific subject.

Nah, it's just me checking back every 10 minutes to see if there is a new development. :) Should I pull the trigger, yes no....

To B or not to B, that is the question.
 
Kelly Olsen said:
If Jan is correct that the looks like the statement from Panasonic that the cost of a 100B is going to be $4,000.00 I think many consumers are going to be going to other manufactures. If it had a 16X9 chip then 4K might be reasonable.
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The list price of the DVX100A is $3995. The DVX100B which does a little more is $3995. The fact is that none of these cameras sell at list price and are comparably priced with the competition, and in fact is far below the only other 24P camcorder out there. You cannot compare street price on one to list price on another, both have to be the same sort of apple.

Best,

Jan
 
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