DVFilm DVX100 to 35mm screening

cyclone

cyclone

Well-known member
Marcus van Bavel of DVFilm is graciously sending me his 10 minute DVX100 to 35mm sample reel for screening. It includes Barry Green's reel of footage with the anamorphic adapter and the mini35 adapter (Barry is also pleased that we can do this screening), a short film titled "Caius" utilizing the PAL DVX100 and the anamorphic adapter, and the LA FCP USer's group DVX100/PD150 test (NTSC/no adapter). I will be screening it at 5:15pm this Friday (June 11) in the Chaplin Theatre at Raleigh Studios in Hollywood. It seats 150 - first come first serve. Sorry about the short notice, but I wasn't sure it would happen given shipping and things on Friday now that it is a national holiday for President Reagan's funeral. Anyway, I'm more than happy to open the screening to anyone who wants to show up. Directions are at www.raleighstudios.com (the Hollywood studio - NOT Manhattan Beach). Parking is in a structure off of Van Ness (and they charge - unless you can find a place on the street). I would ask that if you stop by, just drop a small donation at the door to help offset the screening room ($250 + projectionist tip) and shipping of the print. (Marcus, however, is providing the print free of charge.) Marcus is also providing a log to go with the reel. I am told that the screen image (1.85 aspect ratio) is almost 20 feet across in the Chaplin Room. Maybe we can show it a couple of times - I have the room until 6pm. Thanks to Marcus and Barry!
Hope some of you can take advantage of this.
Best,
Scott Campbell
P.S. If FedEx lets me down, I'll post it here so that no one makes an unnecessary trip.
 
Re: DVFilm DVX100 to 35mm screening

Excellent! Scott is being very gracious in opening this up, it's costing him $250 out of his own pocket to set up this screening, so if you can drop a fiver in the hat on your way in, that would be most cool.

If you want to see what the DVX can do on the big screen, and you can get to Hollywood this Friday, this looks like an excellent opportunity. I always highly recommend seeing with your own eyes, rather than taking anyone's word for it. Also I'd love to see the PD150 film-out test... from what I remember Noah saying, the differences between the PD150 and the DVX were somewhat lessened by the film-out process. And to have a PAL/anamorphic version on the same reel, that's really cool.

Hey Scott, if you want, I'll post a notice about this on indieclub.com, I'm sure there are a bunch who would want to go!
 
Re: DVFilm DVX100 to 35mm screening

..your talking gamma and color rendition differences right. surely not resolution ?
 
Re: DVFilm DVX100 to 35mm screening

I haven't seen the test on film, only on DVD, but from what I remember Noah saying, they thought the differences on DVD were a lot more noticeable than the differences on film were.
 
Re: DVFilm DVX100 to 35mm screening

Just a quick note to let those thinking of coming to the screening that FedEx did, indeed, come through. The screening will happen Friday at
5:15pm at Raleigh Studios Hollywood in the Chaplin Theatre.
Scott C.
 
Re: DVFilm DVX100 to 35mm screening

I'd love to attend the screening, but I live in Michigan, so it's a bit far for me. I hope those who attend will report back to let us know how it went. And for those of you who are in Southern California, I'd just like to add: Go Pistons!

Yeah, that's off topic and irrelevant to this board, but I couldn't resist. Sorry, Lakers fans. :D

Let us know how the screening goes.
 
Re: DVFilm DVX100 to 35mm screening

I came across this screening announcement 3 hours too late. I would have been there. I would like to get some feedback from people at the screening. What looked best?
 
Re: DVFilm DVX100 to 35mm screening

My backgroud is not video (which is why I wanted to see the DVX100 transferred to film and then projected LARGE), but I'll give you my two cents:
The DVX100 in 24p beat everything in it's class.
I agree with Barry that the Mini35 adapter is a bit too soft when blown up that large.
The anamorphic adapter (NTSC) is acceptable.
But my biggest surprise was the PAL footage (with the anamorphic adapter): easily comparable to 16mm. I have to admit I was surprised at the difference between NTSC and PAL when projected on the large (20') screen. Again, my perspective was viewing for film out.
Thanks to Barry and Noah who shot a couple of the tests, and to Marcus at DVfilm who lent us his reel. By the way, he does this free of charge for anyone who wants to view it. You only pay for shipping (and the screening room).
-Scott
 
Re: DVFilm DVX100 to 35mm screening

Excellent Screening! Scott, thank you for the vision to cut to the horses mouth and share it with others. Seeing means so much more than reading...

Several things stood out to me from the screening:

1. There was a tracking overhead close up shot of a girl in a hospital bed. Shallow depth of field, green and blue color/texture in shot. WOW. Any one know more information about this very short clip?

2. The first section was of a western set shot 24p Advanced PAL with 16:9 Panasonic Anamorphic adaptor. I wouldn't argue that it wasn't 16mm film. There was NO STAIRCASING. I'm a little bit anal about diagonal edge staircasing and didn't see any. When I first got the 100a I was very disipointed to see diagonal edge staircasing but then changed the setting to "THICK", mostly went away.

- what's interesting to me is that a number of dv to film transfer houses (including panasonic manual) suggest that you should set this V DETAIL FREQ to THIN...

-- does anyone know what the setting was in the camera for this shoot? Is it simply because it was from PAL that it had more vertical resolution (plus additional vertical resolution from anamorphic adaptor) that took out the stair case?

-- if shooting in NTSC without the anomorphic adaptor AND shooting with the recommended THIN setting, does the film transfer somehow miraculously take out the stair case?

Oops, this started off as some comments but turned into a bunch of questions... er, sorry, but any answers would be appreciated ;)

Edber
www.edbermamisao.com
 
Re: DVFilm DVX100 to 35mm screening

[quote author=Edber link=board=nws;num=1086804190;start=0#8 date=06/11/04 at 22:47:53]
2.  The first section was of a western set shot 24p Advanced PAL with 16:9 Panasonic Anamorphic adaptor.  I wouldn't argue that it wasn't 16mm film.  There was NO STAIRCASING.  I'm a little bit anal about diagonal edge staircasing and didn't see any.  When I first got the 100a I was very disipointed to see diagonal edge staircasing but then changed the setting to "THICK", mostly went away.

- what's interesting to me is that a number of dv to film transfer houses (including panasonic manual) suggest that you should set this V DETAIL FREQ to THIN...  
[/quote]
What you're seeing is likely an artifact of interlaced displays.  Every film transfer house *should* be recommending THIN, because that's by far the highest resolution you can get.  But it's not designed for interlaced displays -- it's designed for progressive screens (like computer screens, LCD monitors, film transfer, etc).

When you set your camera to THICK, you gave up a lot of resolution, but in exchange it fixed the staircasing artifact (which is caused by the interlaced television you were watching it on).  It's not the camera's fault, it's the TV's.  In THIN mode you get all the resolution possible.  THICK is a compromise designed to overcome the artifacts that occur when putting a progressive image on an interlaced display.

-- does anyone know what the setting was in the camera for this shoot?  Is it simply because it was from PAL that it had more vertical resolution (plus additional vertical resolution from anamorphic adaptor) that took out the stair case?
Click to expand...
That was a shot from one of my projects, by uber-talented cinematographer Jay Nemeth.  It was not PAL, it was NTSC, 24PA, THIN, anamorphic adapter, using all the scene file settings recommended by DVFILM.


-- if in NTSC without the anomorphic adaptor AND with the recommended THIN setting, does the film transfer somehow miraculously take out the stair case?
Click to expand...
Well, no, you've got it kind of backwards: with progressive/thin, there is no staircasing.  It's the process of displaying it on an interlaced TV that ADDS the staircasing effect.  Because the film process circumvents the whole television part, there's no staircasing introduced.
 
Re: DVFilm DVX100 to 35mm screening

Thank you Barry :D Thank you also for providing much of the footage for the screening.

I also have a question about the sci fi set images. The first part was WITHOUT an anomorphic adaptor which was cropped to 16x9. Actually... I'll cut to the chase...

I just started shooting a no-budget feature right now with the 100a. I've been shooting in squeeze mode for 'additional' resolution. I love composing for the letter box but shooting with this stretched image is driving me nuts. We don't have the budget for a monitor or a 16x9 eyepeice so what I'd like to know is if this sacrifice will really make a noticable difference for a blow up. If not I'll happily stop squeezing and do the in camera crop (or even 4:3 with crop guides...) What would you recommend?

Gratefully,
Edber
 
Re: DVFilm DVX100 to 35mm screening

Also, :)
part of the sci fi footage was said to be using a PS+Teknik adapter for narro depth of field effects. I've been trying to find more info about this online but have met a dead end. Could you please give the link?

Thanks,

Edber
 
Re: DVFilm DVX100 to 35mm screening

Go to the dvx home page, and look on the top left of your screen, Jared has a review of it. However if your strapped for cash, this probably wont fit your budget too well.
 
Re: DVFilm DVX100 to 35mm screening

For the sci-fi Matrix stuff, I put two clips on there: one was shot with the anamorphic adapter, and then the other was shot without the anamorphic, in "letterbox" mode, using the P+S Technik mini35.

You can read about the mini35 at http://www.mini35.de

For a film transfer, I would *not* use squeeze mode, I'd use letterbox.  Squeeze mode will do some up-rezzing in the camera, but it will need a lot more up-rezzing by the post house when they go to transfer it to film.  I think you'll get a cleaner up-rez if you start from the raw footage (letterbox) rather than from an intermediary up-rez (squeeze mode).

For DVD release, you can get better results with the anamorphic adapter, but if you're not using that, go ahead and use squeeze.  But for film transfer work, I'd strongly recommend using the anamorphic adapter, but if you're not going to, then I'd recommend letterbox over squeeze.
 
Re: DVFilm DVX100 to 35mm screening

[quote author=Edber link=board=nws;num=1086804190;start=0#8 date=06/11/04 at 22:47:53]Several things stood out to me from the screening:

1.  There was a tracking overhead close up shot of  a girl in a hospital bed.  Shallow depth of field, green and blue color/texture in shot.  WOW.  Any one know more information about this very short clip?

2.  The first section was of a western set shot 24p Advanced PAL with 16:9 Panasonic Anamorphic adaptor.  I wouldn't argue that it wasn't 16mm film.  There was NO STAIRCASING.  I'm a little bit anal about diagonal edge staircasing and didn't see any.  When I first got the 100a I was very disipointed to see diagonal edge staircasing but then changed the setting to "THICK", mostly went away.

- what's interesting to me is that a number of dv to film transfer houses (including panasonic manual) suggest that you should set this V DETAIL FREQ to THIN...  

-- does anyone know what the setting was in the camera for this shoot?  Is it simply because it was from PAL that it had more vertical resolution (plus additional vertical resolution from anamorphic adaptor) that took out the stair case?

-- if shooting in NTSC without the anomorphic adaptor AND shooting with the recommended THIN setting, does the film transfer somehow miraculously take out the stair case?

[/quote]

1. This is from a short film called Caius (Caligula) by Marco Piana, a very talented, meticulous Italian photographer and filmmaker. The whole film was shot with our PAL recommended settings (see http://dvfilm.com/dvx100) and the Pan. optical anamorphic adaptor. There are some stills here http://www.dvfilm.com/Cauis.htm

That particular shot has some After Effects work in it to get the blue color and the blurring/distorted look.

2. Thin is recommended for transfer to film and all these samples were shot thin. Your videotape version will have to have some vertical blending to reduce flicker which you can add in post using DVFilm Maker or the NLE.

3. PAL vs NTSC does reduce staircasing by about 20%, the optical adapter another 25%, so we do recommend the PAL in 25P/thin mode with the optical adaptor. This, and Piana's lighting are why the "Caius" shots look so good.

Just to clarify "Caius" was DVX100 PAL, all the other DVX100 samples were NTSC.
 
Re: DVFilm DVX100 to 35mm screening

Wow, those are some good looking grabs from the PAL version.

Marcus, what happens the film is shot 25p advanced? I mean scene file 6.
Is there a reason why you recommend the 25P?
I have got your book and it has all the recommendations, but I would like to know the reason why to avoid using the advanced mode on the PAL version.

Another thing I would like to know is if you want to transfer your film to 35mm what is the best solution: the NTSC 24P or the PAL 25P? Well, I know that the 24P (23.98) is closer to 24P and that the 25P slows down by 4%.
I can see the obvious advantage of the NTSC one, but I also know that the PAL version also has its advantages.

Could you give a little bit of more detail about the two cameras?

Thanks in advance

Fidel.
 
Re: DVFilm DVX100 to 35mm screening

There is no "advanced" 25P mode on the PAL model, and none is required since the pulldown is always 2 from 25P to 50i.

We recommend the PAL DVX100 over the NTSC because there is 20% more resolution for a transfer to film. The disadvantages of PAL have lately been overcome, namely, it is easy to convert to NTSC (with DVFilm Atlantis http://dvfilm.com/atlantis or with your NLE) and the 4% change in the soundtrack on a transfer to film can be processed with very good results if you let us (the transfer company) handle it.
 
Re: DVFilm DVX100 to 35mm screening

That is what I thought, because I couldn't see it there.
So what it the difference between scenes f5 and f6 on the PAL camera?

Thanks in advance

Fidel.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top