DVD L/R margins appear cropped on my TV

Shawn Murphy

Shawn Murphy

Well-known member
..when viewing my finished DVD (on my non-widescreen/4:3, TV), the left and right margins appear cropped in comparison to what I see in the Vegas preview screen. It's not cropped by a lot like pan&scan, perhaps only about 5% on either side, but it is annoying as the framing is off form what I intended. And the letterbox bars on top and bottom are thinner, though the top and bottom footage is all there.


Does it have something to do with the "safe" areas in DVDA, my TV, or my DVD player?


Here's my workflow:

1. Record 24PA 4:3

2. Crop in Vegas 16:9

3. Render in Vegas using template: DVD Architect 24p Widescreen Video Stream (adding audio into the rendered file as opposed to a separate AC3 file)

4. Burn DVD in DVDA3 using:

NTSC Widescreen (720x480)

and I also used

NTSC (720x480)


Thanks,

~Shawn






 
I'd imagine it's just your set is expanding the image (eating up more of your safe margins) than what Vegas' safe lines are guiding you for ... all sets are different, and the safe lines are simply guide lines, and as such your picture will vary from TV to TV, both in size/ratio to a degree as well as contrast, saturation, etc.

Ideally, you should be at least be checking your work on a separate monitor/TV, that you can have hooked up via firewire to your DVcamera ... then in Vegas just press the (preview on separate monitor button). Something I've recently noticed, and not sure if it's always been this way or not, is that when I'm previewing my 16x9 project on a 4:3 monitor, it HOLDS the picture/ratio & doesn't stretch it. Pretty cool.
 
What a wanker I am, I didn't even know that Vegas had safe zone markers!! Doh, I just enabled that function in the preview and voilà, my TV actually looks a LOT like the preview window's safe zone.

So, what am I missing here, does this mean I should mask my LCD and monitor on the sides while shooting too? (I already mask for 16:9).
 
Wouldn't hurt, if you're that concerned about missing something on the sides of the screen. There are simple but effective screen overlays you can buy for your camera's LCD. I use one, specifically for the 16x9 framing, though I shoot 4:3 anyway (then mask/crop in Vegas).
 
I always shoot 4:3 and crop, so I too bought the 16:9 overlay called 'Screen Skins' that EVS sells, but it only has the top and bottom letterbox lines.

And yes, quite often I frame the sides of my shots very specifically to include an object or a line, e.g. just part of a door frame or window or a lamp or actor... I'm really surprised I'd never heard about framing the sides of my shots for "safe" zones. Oh well, I guess I'm still really new, so live and learn. Thx!

*I see that there is another overlay product that includes safe zone markers, I think I'll try this out:

 
Shawn,
Your DVX LCD finder is already showing the underscanned image. There is no way to "recover" the unseen 5% or so of the image with an overlay because it's, well...missing in the finder (which has "cropped it out") but still exists on the tape. Using a monitor on set that has an overscan setting will show you the actual image area that's being recorded.
At times when I don't have that additional monitor, it's easy to just zoom out a tad to check the safe area, then recompose for the shot.
Hope this helps.
Ken
the Screen Skins guy
 
Oh yes, good point. I can't tell you how many frustrations I've had before because I KNEW I had something out of frame (i.e. boom pole, etc.), based on the LCD, yet when I get into post, there it is! It's not a problem for jobs you'll view on a TV, but projection/web work, it's a frustration I've dealt with.

So yes, the sides already do crop, to a degree, in the LCD.
 
kplo said:
Shawn,
Your DVX LCD finder is already showing the underscanned image. There is no way to "recover" the unseen 5% or so of the image with an overlay because it's, well...missing in the finder (which has "cropped it out") but still exists on the tape. Using a monitor on set that has an overscan setting will show you the actual image area that's being recorded.
At times when I don't have that additional monitor, it's easy to just zoom out a tad to check the safe area, then recompose for the shot.
Hope this helps.
Ken
the Screen Skins guy
Click to expand...


Ken, that's a very interesting point, I'll run a few tests later today to get this visually pounded into my head!

By the way, I couldn't find a link to your product, which I would have linked to in my post but I did a Google and also searched EVS and found nothing. If I remember correctly when I ordered it from EVS I had to ask them specifically to add the 'Screen Skins' to my order (they've been working just fine and although those other ones look really fancy I don't all those extra lines on my LCD if they're unnecessary!)

~Shawn
 
Shawn,
I think the EVS order code is something like "SSDVX". I sent them a picture of the product package a while back for their website, but with all the items they carry, I know it's difficult to show every single one.
The idea behind the overlays was to keep the frame as clean as possible, except for a center frame marker (+).
I based the design on a custom ground glass that I had made for my old Eclair ACLll film camera (it showed the 1:85 crop in the full 16mm frame).
The greyed out area at top and bottom still allows me to see an incoming mike, light stand, etc., while keeping my attention on the 16x9 (or 1:85 or 2:35) composition.
My website will be up soon with this product and some other stuff I'm working on for the indy film maker. :)
Sincerely,
Ken
the Screen Skins guy
 
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