DVCPRO HD codec VS HVX CCD's

cardmaverick

cardmaverick

Well-known member
If you have read any of my recent posts, you know I've been messing around with HVX200 settings and post options. I recently did some more tests. I shot the same scene several times, from -15 up to +15. And I found that I had less noise using a + pedestal setting and then and contrast in post via curves.

The one thing I noticed though, every clip has it's own amount of noise. Even when viewed raw, there's noise in each one. It gets more visible in the in camera crushed clips.

So here is my question:

Is HVX200 image noise a result of the CCD's, or is it really the DVCPRO HD codec?

I've heard many people blame it on dirty CCD's (meaning they don't have a very good signal to noise ratio)

The kicker:

I've shot on Varicam, and there is just as much noise going on, and it wasn't crushed in camera either...

Something to think about.

I'm leaning more and more towards it being the codec, or at the very least the cameras ability to apply that codec to the footage. I've heard many Mac users say they get better H264 compression using mac software on a mac VS using a PC program that can apply the very same codec.

So what do others think?

PS: can't wait to see what Hydra can pull out of the HVX.
 
Well, you're pretty much describing behavior you're going to find in any camera. Pressing down the curves will increase apparent noise.

Or, are you saying it's something you're finding that's unique to DVCPRO cameras?
 
David Jimerson said:
Well, you're pretty much describing behavior you're going to find in any camera. Pressing down the curves will increase apparent noise.

Or, are you saying it's something you're finding that's unique to DVCPRO cameras?
Click to expand...

I know that contrast increases make noise more visible, but even in the RAW footage, I see noise. My curiosity is if its from the Codec or CCD's. Maybe its a combination of the two. If you work with RAW DSLR's and then export for web, you can get small files and great looking images (better than DVCPRO HD frames), so thats why I wonder if its the codec.
 
Chris, why don't you conduct a simple experiment: insert what you consider to be a noise-free DSLR image into your NLE and encode it using the DVCProHD codec, and examine the results.
 
Now thats a great idea! I have to admit, I never thought about doing that.... The only con I can think of is that it's being done by an NLE, not the DSP inside the HVX...but still a great place to start. So many variables....:grin:
 
If you see it from the live outputs, it's in-camera (whether the CCDs or the DSP or what, we don't truly know). If you don't see it from the live outputs, but you do see it in the recorded footage, then you know it's in the codec.
 
I am kind of on topic Chris, generally, I have always shot HVX 1080pA24 based on Jim Arthurs study here and Barry Green's distillation here. Great thread for pixel pushers.

Looking forward to your findings Chris, and the ultimate proposed HVX settings and post process. :thumbsup:
 
WOW! good lead there man. I'm definantly gonna mess with this. The 720p in that clip almost looks out of focus! I can only wonder what the guys detail settings were, thats what I'm playing with now. I'll update the other thread with this info...

:thumbsup:
 
A couple of things I'd like to add with recent work I've undertaken.

720p recordings downscaled using realtime output on Edius OHCI DV (which is obviously SD out),looks cleaner and sharper than recorded pure SD (which is derived in camera using the HD imager) .

Analogue output of 720p via component to my hi-def projector does away with any stairstepping you might see when previewing footage on the computer.

So my point is here, there are many issues during output that influence the signal path rather than the camera itself.
 
consider also the monitor you are viewing on.. this can play a huge roll on general picture quality and noise..
 
JitCam said:
consider also the monitor you are viewing on.. this can play a huge roll on general picture quality and noise..
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say my monitor is the issue, I work on an Eizo flexscan.

I'm pretty anxious to see what the Hydra can pull out of the camera too. At the very least, I won't have to put up with so many obstacles in getting the desired images I want, since it's RAW data.
 
I have had this camera for over a year now. Unless you are underexposing the image I still don't see all the noise that some people continue to complain about. Sure there is some noise in the 30 % area but it's not out of control especially for a 1/3" CCD camera.
 
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