DVCPro 50 vs HDV
- Thread starter Angelcyk
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PerroneFord
Deals in Lead
HDV has higher resolution than either DVCProHD or DVCPro 50. But clearly, that's not the entire story.
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AwakenedFilms
Veteran
Not sure what you mean about HDV having a higher resolution, PerroneFord?? DVCPRO HD is a codec that records at a roughly 100 mbps data rate, with a 4:2:2 color sampling. The resolution can be 1280x720 or 1920x1080. HDV is a codec that records at a roughly 25 mbps data rate, with a 4:2:0 color sampling.
It is my understanding that DVCPRO HD is compressed, but not nearly as compressed at HDV.
DVCPRO 50 is 720x480 at a roughly 25mbps data rate with a 4:2:2 color sampling. Bottom line: HDV is higher resolution than DVCPRO 50, but employs a much higher compression rate and there for end up with larger compression artifacts. HDV wins in resolution over DVCPRO 50, but not color reproduction nor clean compression.
Jason
It is my understanding that DVCPRO HD is compressed, but not nearly as compressed at HDV.
DVCPRO 50 is 720x480 at a roughly 25mbps data rate with a 4:2:2 color sampling. Bottom line: HDV is higher resolution than DVCPRO 50, but employs a much higher compression rate and there for end up with larger compression artifacts. HDV wins in resolution over DVCPRO 50, but not color reproduction nor clean compression.
Jason
adamr316
Well-known member
DVCPro HD may expand to 1280x720 or 1920x1080 but they are stored as squeezed resolutions. I forget the spec but they are not native 1920x1080 et al but then again neither is HDCam. HDV is squeezed as well but has a higher recorded resolutions (pixel count), so that's what PerroneFord is saying.
PerroneFord
Deals in Lead
DVCProHD is not 1920x1080. It's 1280x1080. HDV is 1440x1080.
I am not saying that HDV is a better codec than either DVCProHD or DVCPro50. All I am saying is that the resolution of HDV happens to be higher.
I am not saying that HDV is a better codec than either DVCProHD or DVCPro50. All I am saying is that the resolution of HDV happens to be higher.
ProfessorU
Veteran
Actually, it's 50Mbps. That's why it's called DVCPro50.
HDV records at roughly 19Mbps (the audio rounds it out to 25).
PerroneFord
Deals in Lead
jrmiller_entertainment
Well-known member
you're comparing a high def resolution to a standard def resolution. obviously the high def one is better but if you're going straight to dvd record in dvcpro50...better color sampling and less compression.
jcoxshooter
Well-known member
what do you meand by downsampled hdv is 4:4:4?
Aroon_Narayanan
Well-known member
Not necessarily. DVCPRO HD is intraframe, that is, it only compresses within each individual frame. HDV is long-GOP, and it compresses between different frames. This can create issues with motion, editing, and tape dropouts, and these issues can plague long-GOP codecs, like XDCAM EX, AVC HD, and HDV, regardless of bitrate. (Needless to say, 35mbps XDCAM EX is going to have a whole lot less issues than 6mbps AVC HD.) Yes, HDV may have a higher resolution, but it has half the color sampling and the issues of a long-GOP format. The advantage is that it's incredibly cheap to shoot with.
Aroon_Narayanan
Well-known member
That would all depend on how you downsample it. Seeing as the color resolution of 1440x1080 HDV is 720x540, if you convert the HDV footage to a 4:4:4 codec and then downsample, the fact that the color res is higher than DV resolution means that you'll technically get 4:4:4 color.
ProfessorU
Veteran
This thread is becoming filled with misinformation and worse, accurate information that is misleading.
HDV uses 4:2:0 chroma subsampling. So if chroma subsampling were perfect and you were shooting progressive, it would be comparable to 4:4:4 in Widescreen SD, but in images with high contrast, fine detail, or motion, you still could have out of gamut colors and other artifacts that creep into your final. Also, if you're going to 4:3, you'll need to lose some of that horizontal resolution to cropping, which you wouldn't have to do with DVCPro50. SoHDV makes for pretty decent SD and web videos, but calling it 4:4:4 is an oversimplification.
HDV is usually considered an acceptable capture format for SD broadcast by most networks, but DVCPro50 is (I think) accepted by everyone for SD broadcast.
The real benefits to DVCPro50 on P2 are
no interframe compression ( more detail in moving shots or subjects and errors, if present, affect a single frame)
Choice of 4x3 or 16x9 aspect ratio without losing resolution
more reliable solid state recording
significantly better audio on four audio channels
faster-than-realtime transfer to the NLE
No need for software downconversion
How would this be possible? The camera's chip aspect ratio determines how well it handles 4:3 or 16:9, and it's either one or the other. If the camera is native 16:9, then it has to crop its sensor to get 4:3, and if it's 4:3 then it goes through an electronic squeeze mode, resulting in a lower resolution.
Yes. HDV at 100mbps will be sharper, less noisy, and exhibit fewer compression artifacts than DVCProHD. It's like using a bitrate of 25mbps for a standard def DVD. It's just too much. XDCAM has a maximum bitrate of 35mbps.
However, it has less color information vertically which can make a difference if and only if (1) you have to do heavy color correction or green screen work and (2) the resulting video will be played back in high definition. Otherwise, your eyes can't tell the difference between 4:2:0 and 4:2:2 (trust me, I have tried!).
Usually when people say "4:4:4" they mean "4:4:4 uncompressed" but downsampled HDV is "4:4:4 compressed" in the same way that DvcProHD is not the same as "4:2:2 uncompressed". They are all compressed. And here's the way I see the compression: In low motion scenes, HDV is definitely better (sharper, less noisy). In extreme high motion scenes, such as sports, DVCProHD is definitely better (no motion artifacts). In between the two extremes, it depends on the cam you're using. That's comparing the two HD formats.