.DV to HD to DVD

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Hi,

Is there any advantage to uprez DV to HD before going to DVD (MPEG2) ?

If yes, is there a simple way to do it ?

thanks
 
Re: .DV to HD to DVD

standard dvd's today are only SD... not HD... so you'd be going up, then back down.
 
Re: .DV to HD to DVD

no technical advantage, but there are bragging rights, and possible marketability advantages.
 
Re: .DV to HD to DVD

Actually, it'd be a considerable disadvantage. HD is hi-def but REALLY heavily compressed, so you'd get weird artifacts in the final transfer that weren't there before. You'd gain no resolution but the compression would be weird.
 
Re: .DV to HD to DVD

That's what *I* would assume...Because it's creating an extra generation of the video that's unneeded...no?
 
Re: .DV to HD to DVD

[quote author=Policar link=board=nws;num=1081780588;start=0#5 date=04/12/04 at 20:37:31]HD is hi-def but REALLY heavily compressed[/quote]

Well, it's only heavily compressed if you want it to be. There's nothing stopping someone from up-rezzing their DVX footage to uncompressed HD. Again, once they down-rez, I don't think there will be any benefit, but it could be done.

HD compression is up to the individual algorithm. HDV is 19 megabits, DVCPRO-HD is 100 megabits, and the Dalsa is supposed to be completely uncompressed, isn't it?
 
Re: .DV to HD to DVD

The only advantage to upressing to hd and then back down to sd would be in some filters that are applied. Say you wanted to apply a film grain filter. you could techinally get a more pleasing film grain on your hd footage converted to sd footage than a strait film grain filter on the sd footage alone. Why, because you have more pixels to work with and the grain filter will just look more natural. there are some other filters that when applied to uprezzed footage and then downconverted to sd will look better. however, you have to ask yourself if it is really worth the time and effort to do this. The effects may be slightly better, but are they worth the time. Maybe if you just had a short clip that needed a special filter applied to it then you could uprez, apply the filter and then downrez just that clip. just a thought.
 
Re: .DV to HD to DVD

...just made a very simple test tonight...
imported a QT 720X480 into Photozoom demo and applied S-spline resizing method with photo-soft setting...
I would like to know what do you think about the results...
 
Re: .DV to HD to DVD

In any case, I gotta go with Scharky . . . it's just not worth the render time. I think I figured out that it would take me 15-18 hours to render to HD (WM9 with all the settings jacked up) a 55-minute program I had created. No slight advantage is worth that.
 
Re: .DV to HD to DVD

I was pleased with the results even staying in 720X480.
Much sharper image, but i did not test it on a TV mnitor though (maybe it would look too sharp or contrasty)...
If i use the S-spline with generic setting and it was actually too sharp and contrasty.
again, To my eyes, "S-spline" with "photo-soft" setting looked great.
But i can"t find the way to convert a movie stream.
 
Re: .DV to HD to DVD

s-pline does not have a feature yet that you can import avi or quicktime files. With the pro version you can do a batch render, so if you have a tiff sequence that would work.
 
Re: .DV to HD to DVD

yes. i have found the photo soft to be the most pleasing as well, but you can use any amount of unsharp mask you want, and set it how you want. at least in the pro version. i found that the setting i did by myself was very close to the photosoft  preset. ive done some uncompressed uprezzing to hd with it using batch processing, as barry green pioneered some time ago. and it looks awsome. but even staying at dv resolution, you can get phenominal results just using the unsharp mask to crisp it up, and i  was thinking that if doing a film out. you could just stay at dv resolution, and batch process your film uncompressed, so the filmout would be much sharper. i had a chance to see the dvx projected from a higher end consumer lever digital projector onto a smaller 25 foot screen  straight from dv tape the other week, and it was beatiful.very clean and sharp. even froma consumer digital projector. i have no doubt in my mind, that with a little sharpening from photozoom pro and keeping in dv resolution would mak an excellent filmout.  maybe not the best for ntsc viewing due to sharpness. ..which i havnet tried either, but for filmout, or projection digitally, its very nice.  staying at 720x480 and projecting the much sharper and clearer image i think would be very near the equivilent or better on the big screen of doing any sort of plain uprezzing to hd. but uprezzing and sharpening is obviosly  a better choice, just takes alot of room for the uncomressed hd tiff sequences.
last i tlaked to shortcut software who makes photozoom they said they were currently still working on the video version barry green mentioned some time ago. they said they could not estimate a time to have it out at this point
 
Re: .DV to HD to DVD

that's what i think...

I wonder why everybody told me it wouldn't do any improvement yesterday...
 
Re: .DV to HD to DVD

Just my two cents, but I think using Photozoom/S-Spline pro VASTLY improves a normal DVD project.

I made a quick and dirty (and ugly) test file of three different cases. All rendered using Vegas Video.

1. The original DV Capture, rendered as a DVD project.

2. Uprezzed frames using Photozoom then rendered as an HD project.

3. Uprezzed frames using Photozoom, then rendered (down rezzed) the frames as DVD project.

I think #2 looks fabulous (well, for this lousy footage) and #3 is noticeably better than #1, but you can form your own opinion.

Check out:
http://www.angelfire.com/indie/thenorthwind/

To see the test files. My only question is I can't play the HD .wmv file back properly on my machine (it freezes after a few frames, I posted on this back in the Vegas forum). Is this a bug in my workflow somewhere and I'm not making a kosher file, or is my machine just not man enough to play back HD? I'd appreciate if someone would let me know if they can view the HD clip.

Thanks,

Derek

P.S. I think Photozoom rocks! If I was doing a project to DVD or to film-out I would definitely take the hit and up rez to HD first. Of course on my box that would take about 15 days for a 90 minute feature but hey.. Sometimes you gotta take a hit for the team..

P.P.S. Can someone please explain more about Unsharp Mask, the online help was less than helpful when I tried to read up on it. I tried fooling with the sliders but could detect no noticeable change in my preview window.
 
Re: .DV to HD to DVD

I got a stack overflow when I went to your page, so I couldn't play the videos...

... are you sure you guys aren't just seeing the effects of a sharpen filter? You might be able to just sharpen your video in post and not bother with the whole uprez-downrez thing, and get the same results...
 
Re: .DV to HD to DVD

very possible Barry !

but on the other hand, with the "soft" setting, it does not seem to be too sharp...I need to do some more testing.

BTW, i tried it without uprezzing and the image became maybe clearer than original without beeing "sharpy" when i simply applied the "soft" filter.

Does somebody know how to reimport TIFF file with a 1 frame lenght.
Default image lenght of still pict is 10 sec...
Not very easy to work on a timeline hee hee....

thanks
 
Re: .DV to HD to DVD

Use After effects. You can see my other post on how to do this but I will copy and paste it for you here.

"Oh, one more thing. To turn the tiff sequence back into an avi (I don't know if you can do this in premiere) but in after effects, go import file/ then select all of the tiff files, check the box marked "tiff sequence" and check the box marked "force alphabetical". It will then think for a second and import all of the files. Choose the top file "by itself" and drag it down into your timeline. It will be conformed to your framerate specified in your composition settings ie. 23.976fps. Export that as another uncompressed avi or quicktime file and Vioala, you have a brand new avi. "
 
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