Thanks for the additional info. What type of quality monitoring is happening on the video image?
Depending on how you coded your app you may want to talk to a Mac programmer since it's possible to port one to the other but the difficulty will depend on how the program is structured. The Mac has many of the same features as the MS model but accessed in a different way.
Thus, you can specify if XX% of the screen is brighter than XX for longer than X frames, mark it for review. Very handy for preventing accidental white clipping or quick flashes of light from reflected sunlight etc.
Hi Mark,
I was testing out "The Rack" and they bounce rather nicely...hehe, I was testing and was wondering about squeeze mode. I tried to get it to show the unsqueezed footage but i seems to only give me what I see in the cameras LCD plus underscan. Is there a feature to unsqueeze?
Thanks
Aram
There is no an anamorphic unsqueeze feature at the moment but this is planned for the not too distant future. We have a list of several dozen really cool ideas for ways to expand and extend DV Rack (being virtual our rack can be twelve feet tall!). And we have users suggesting cool ideas literally every day.
The bottom line is that back in April when we announced and showed DV Rack for the first time at NAB, we promised that it would be available in the "summer". In the meantime, we've finished the product that was shown and even snuck in a dozen new features that weren't promised. But it's time to ship something. We're at a very solid 1.0 (probably closer to 1.2) version and people want to start using it now. So, today we're shipping off the gold master. There's also the small matter of Serious Magic being just a tad tinier than Adobe and needing to eventually start generating some income to recoup the considerable costs of development (and of course continue development forward to 2.0).
Fortunately, SM has a reputation for continually developing its products and releasing fairly rapid updates and expansions.
[quote author=Jarred Land link=board=nws;num=1091717583;start=0#5 date=08/06/04 at 15:43:17]the latency is because the program actually prerolls before your camera does, you can set it at 1sec, 2sec, 5 sec ext.
And hold on to your hats guys we are working on a fantastic discount for DVXuser members.[/quote]
Can I see real time? If not then this may be ok for capturing video, but doesn't seem to me it would work for a live setting, or replacing my field monitor thats mounted on my tripod, or am I miss understanding this?
Thanks for the response Mark. I really like it so far and will get it as soon as I get a laptop. Before this came out, a laptop was waaaaaaay down the list but now its a whole new story. Ill probably have a few more questions after I play with it more. Too bad its not a 30 day limit. I didnt want to install it until I had enough time to play.
I'm not sure what was being described by Barry about a one second delay. I've never seen that and there may be some issue with Barry's system. The only way I can think of that happening would be if a machine was way under spec or having some kind of hardware problem.
In a normally operating DV Rack system, there is a small delay due to decompression and display buffering times. In the public beta it is 8 frames, in the gold master it is 6 frames (we found a way to optimize it a little more). 6 frames is roughly the delay present when an NLE like Vegas is digitizing from camera. Although it is somewhat noticeable if you look for it, it is certainly not an impediment to production.
Note: when we're talking about a delay, it doesn't mean a difference between the audio and video. They are in exact sync and both delayed slightly.
I checked my laptop (a loner from work) and it turns out it doesn't meet the minimum DV Rack specs. It's a Pentium 3 Toshiba Portege with a 933 Mhz processor. I had requested something very compact for travel and appparently took a bit of a hit on processor speed. Since I normally use it for word processing, powerpoint, and email--I've been happy with the speed, but real-time image processing is another story.
Other than my apparent limitation, I'm impressed with DV Rack. If you could find a laptop with a high enough quality screen, you might be able to leave your monitor at home. However, that's still a big if at this point. Jarred--I agree the AQM features are pretty amazing. Mark--one more feature request for the AQM module. How about the ability to monitor a mic boom dipping into the frame? That would be fantastic. You could have some sort of paper or foam target you attach to the mic that the image recognition routines could easily pick up. Just a thought.
It turns out that the "not too distant future" that I mentioned earlier is even less distant than I'd expected. Today one of the DV Rack developers showed me a working anamorphic squeeze mode in DV Rack. You can even adjust the aspect ratio (default is 1.33, the DVX100a's anamorphic squeeze is 1.78).
Unlike my original DVX100, DV Rack's virtual monitor can be upgraded with a simple downloadable update. The best part is that this download should be available before the first DV Rack user receives product (the first orders are slated to start shipping one week from today).
If it's still in beta, is there any chance for feedback and some fixes? My issues so far (as well as feature requests)
Black level is treated incorrectly when setting up monitor levels based on blue gun and bars. Contrast at 0 should be black, not gray. This affects the overall ability to set up monitor correctly.
I am not a fan of emulating hardware interfacesexactly. This is the same path audio plug-in manufacturs do. Hardware interface is great becase you can grab and tweak, mouse operations are not as intuitive when emulating hardware. Make the best use of software UI.
I suspect because of all the graphics, the windows cannot resize. On a high resolution monitors, the graphs and displays are quite small making the interface hard to use. Reading exact values on waveform vectorscope is also difficult.
Setting my laptop to a lesser resolution caused the video in signal to no longer work.
Create an IRE readout display as a numeric display. Instead of a small fuzzy line on the small display (because of the high resolution monitor) It is difficult to read. A nice display with a numeric value such as 7.5, 20, 16, would be great - perhaps in the RGB display window which I like and does have an IRE scale but unusable since it just lists 7.5 and 100 with no markers in between.
I would like to see the audio window display bit depth and sample rate. Canon cameras have a habit of not really recording 48kHz and it would be nice to see what these cameras are really doing.
The monitor settings again reflect the same interface as being on a real monitor - slow... just bring it up in a window pane and let me tweak all parameters directly and save out different settings by name.
Anamorphic display has already been mentioned.
I would like to see graticules for 1.66, 1.85, and 2.4 inside 4:3 and 16:9 anamorphic. Letterbox presets as well.
Capture should also control the camera for "record on" and record off" much like the freebie software that comes with the Canon XL2.
I would like to see a monitor only version of the application (no capture, frame grab) for less money. I think that $499 is just a bit steep for this application. You can buy a NLE application for that kind of money that captures media and has waveform/vectorscope (may not be live, but you get my point). I would gladly fork over $149 for a monitor only version (with the above).
Thanks for the feedback. The product is no longer in beta as it shipped to manufacturing at the beginning of last week, but we're always looking for further feedback. As users of SMs other products (Visual Communicator and ULTRA) know, we're always releasing updates and improvements.
I believe that most of the "fixes" that you've requested have already been addressed (read on). The feature requests that you've mentioned are noted (in fact they were already on our list).
- No software (outside of Canon's own bundled software) can provide support for special functions in the Canon XL2 until Canon provides documentation and a camera to test. Canon saw DV Rack at DV Expo in NY and was quite enthusiastic. They have been in contact with us since and have said we will get the info as soon as possible.
- A handheld version is of course not physically possible until handhelds get significantly faster and have tens of GBs of storage (and since you are sensitive to display resolution, much higher res screens as well). We're happy to do the merely difficult. The impossible, however, will take slightly longer.
Regarding the actual operation issues that you mentioned:
- In the release version of the software (not the public beta) you can zoom the waveform monitor and vectorscope. Also, the upper end of the brightness gain scale has been increased.
- I don't understand what you mean by "black level is treated incorrectly". I believe that is as correct as it can possibly be. The math has been verified correct and the output has been checked extensively with broadcast gear. In fact, they are (as far as I'm aware) the first truly correct SMPTE spec bars for a PC, since it is impossible to properly render YUV bars in a format like BMP, JPG, etc. Could you please provide details?
- You said "Setting my laptop to a lesser resolution caused the video in signal to no longer work." I've not heard of anyone else experiencing this. Could you please give further info, (ie what resolution, what input, etc)?
- Regarding IRE display. Look at the Spectra 60 scope. IRE is displayed numerically (in YUV mode) and is quite easy to read even in hires (I just did a comparison and the numbers are larger than my desktop text in 1600 x 1200).
- Hit the "Menu" button on the field monitor, then NEXT PAGE and you can set the letterbox aspect ratio including the ratios that you requested.
Regarding the look of the interface, I guess it's a matter of taste. I find it extremely intuitive because it works just like the gear that I worked on for years at TV stations and post houses. At NAB one of the most frequent comments was how people love the interface. Several producers have also mentioned the fact that the "hardware" look of the UI has impressed their clients (silly yes, but the clients do pay the bills!).
Regarding displaying audio bit rate etc. That's a good idea. It wasn't very high on our list but I don't think anyone here was aware that Canon cameras sometimes record the wrong rate. I've shot a little with an XL1 and I never experienced that (but now I shoot with the DVX!).
Lastly, it's hard to comment on price. Of course, the users would like all products to be as close to free as possible. However, my co-workers (and myself) would like to continue to be paid every two weeks.
We can't change the costs of developing the product (in fact your feature requests indicate that you wish we'd spent a bit more on development). What we did spend was a significant sum (at least it seems like it to me). Some of the DV Rack engineers developed hardware that is used live, on-air by the networks. People that really know what they're doing, tend to want to be compensated at a fair rate.
We did a lot of probing on the price at NAB and I had many people tell me that it was *almost* too cheap to take seriously. We would often play "Name That Price" which involved doing a full demo on the product and then asking the spectators how much they'd pay. The high was $2000. The majority were in between $500 - $1000 with the average being around $650. Out of hundreds of people all week, I only had three say they thought that $499 was a bit high. Even the lowest out of those three thought that $350 was "fair" (note: there is that special DVXUser discount through the end of the month).
MS Moviemaker is free, Pinnacle Studio is $99. Does that mean that Sony Vegas+DVD at $999 is a ripoff? Does Vegas at $999 mean that an Avid Media Composer at god-knows-how-much is overpriced? The vast majority of movies and TV shows are still cut on the Avid.
In the end, it all depends on what the benefits of the tool are worth to you. You probably spent more than $3000 just on your camera. If this tool can turn 10% of your unusable shots into good shots and help you get 20% better quality on half your other shots, is it worth $499 (or $399)?
I'm about to shoot a little personal project next month (with the DVX of course). I found a *perfect* location but I'm going to have to pay $450 to rent it for the day (yes, I tried begging, but they won't budge). Beyond the cash, and my own blood, sweat and tears, I'm getting my friends to donate their time and I'm paying $100 to the lead actress plus I'm buying lunch for everyone (just Costco deli trays). I don't know about anyone else, but that's a noticable hit on my pocket. What's it worth to me to be absolutely sure I have the shots I need while I'm still at the location? Now amortize that across all the little projects I (and my friends) want to do over the next couple of years.
We learned yesterday that a major industry magazine decided to go ahead and do a full review of the public beta of DV Rack. The fact that they would actually review a public beta is quite unusual for a professional publication but they did it without telling us anyway. Normally, this would be a pretty frightening thing for us because there are features that weren't in the public beta and there were several known bugs. The public beta also didn't come with the printed manual and the specially printed SureShot camera calibration cards.
The story has a happy ending however. We learned yesterday that they've given it their "Editor's Choice" award and are featuring it on the cover of the next issue. We're not allowed to disclose the name of the magazine yet, but you've probably heard of it. Cool stuff!
Please don't get me wrong on the price issue, I was referring to a version that only offered "monitoring" features and no capture features for a smaller price. I would use the product as a digital light meter, not as a capture station which was the basis for the handheld request - monitor only of waveform/vectorscope.
My black level comment is that when setting up the monitor calibration. I will work it again with my engineer to see what if we can duplicate what we found the first time.
Thanks for the tip on the IRE reading. Can it be added to the RGB level reader? I ask this because I can map digital black and white levels 16 and 235 to IRE and see eveything in between as IRE for expsore (17IRE = 1 stop).
My laptop runs at 1920 x 1200. I got the monitor to display incoming signal by restarting the application.
Great to have someone from Serious Magic around. Really like your products. I'm putting DV Rack on my "to get" list if the reviews are good and when the funds become available.
I'll suggest a monitoring-only lite version but I'm not sure I agree with your suggested price. Everyone's different I suppose but to me the monitoring functions are at least half the value of the product.
Regarding IRE on the Spectra 60: the "Luma" readout in the RGB mode is the 16 to 235 scale. The IRE in the YUV mode is traditional IRE. That way you get the best of both worlds.
Ok, I understand about the video going away on resolution change. I think that must be a function of the graphics card driver because my laptop doesn't require a program restart. I'll put that in the database to be looked at. What graphics chip does your laptop have?
Thanks, glad to be here. Glad you like the products!
I'm not "officially" representing SM here. I'm actually here for 'selfish' reasons. I'm shooting with the DVX and am spending time studying the excellent info on DVXUser in preparation for an upcoming project. Since I don't have anywhere near the expertise on the DVX that many others here do, I'm happy to contribute whatever info I do have, which happens to be on SM products.
If you have any questions I can help with just let me know...
Wanted to pipe in and thank Mark for spending the time here to answer the questions so elaborately, I know your probally indredibly busy right now so you helping out our members is appreciated. Thanks!
Mark, Is this non-techhead friendly? trying to deside between this and a laptop or a good field production monitor. Or would the ideal situation be both?