DV and tapeless

Cranky

Carbonite Member
With all nice things like AVCCAM and NXCAM people tend to forget about good old DV. This standard was pretty much the first compressed digital video standard after Ampex 's DCT. It is a well-thought spec, based on the Rec 601, which is a well-thought spec by itself. Tons of consideration went into DV, from electro-mechanical stuff to codecs and transfer protocols. The more I read about it the more I am in awe. DV is not bound to tape, which is proved by DV-on-P2 and DV-on-XDCAM. DV is robust, requires very little computing power by modern standards, can be recorded to multitude of file formats, namely DV-DIF, DV-AVI, QT-DV and MXF-DV.

With proliferation of tapeless recording this is the opportunity that could not be missed. In fact, Sony's own on-camera recorders (two models, one is HDD-based, another records to compactflash) allow DV recording into a disk file. DV-AVI, drag and drop, no problem, straight to file then straight to computer. But newer NXCAM camera does not do that. No DV, only 9 Mbit/s MPEG-2 DVD-video. AVCCAM camcorders cannot do even this much, they do not record standard def at all.

Why? Is DV an obsolete format? Why then XDCAM, P2 and HDV cameras record it? Why Sony released the PD-175, a DV-only cam (granted, not for the U.S. market). I guess I am just not getting it. Some may consider that I am trolling, but I really cannot understand why DV is not included into modern tapeless handheld cams. Without being bound to tape and to hardware compatibility, it could be possible to create all bunch of extensions to DV like native progressive DV format. In fact, ProHD offers 60p standard def as part of HDV720p spec. 60P DV was also defined in DVCPRO Progressive. So it is already there. Not everyone need HD after all. 60p SD this is like... almost like 1080i. That is, not that bad.

Anyone has a clue? Does anyone care at all?
 
DV has quality issues. At 3.7 MBps, it is a poor compression codec and compression artifacts are very noticeable.

Any professional videographer should avoid it if possible. For consumers though, it's a perfect codec for standard definition. Very easy to edit with.
 
DV has quality issues. At 3.7 MBps, it is a poor compression codec and compression artifacts are very noticeable.

Any professional videographer should avoid it if possible.

You'd be surprised how many outlets use it for broadcast.
 
Why? Is DV an obsolete format? Why then XDCAM, P2 and HDV cameras record it? Why Sony released the PD-175, a DV-only cam (granted, not for the U.S. market). I guess I am just not getting it. Some may consider that I am trolling, but I really cannot understand why DV is not included into modern tapeless handheld cams. Without being bound to tape and to hardware compatibility, it could be possible to create all bunch of extensions to DV like native progressive DV format. In fact, ProHD offers 60p standard def as part of HDV720p spec. 60P DV was also defined in DVCPRO Progressive. So it is already there. Not everyone need HD after all. 60p SD this is like... almost like 1080i. That is, not that bad.

Anyone has a clue? Does anyone care at all?

Not everyone "needs" HD... but if given the choice, most people will take it. Especially when you have cameras like the HMC150 or A1 that shoot good HD for ridiculously cheap prices.

Think of it this way. Not everyone needs a Ford Mustang... but if you could get a Mustang for the price of a Ford Focus Coupe, why wouldn't you?
 
Think of it this way. Not everyone needs a Ford Mustang... but if you could get a Mustang for the price of a Ford Focus Coupe, why wouldn't you?
I would not go in there :) In my family we have a Focus Wagon for everyday hauling, first generation. It is a great car for what it is, 28 MPG, drives well and fits as much stuff as an Explorer. When I want to have some fun I jump into my MR2 Spyder and go to the mountains. I don't need a muscle car or an SUV.

I guess a better comparison of DV vs some HD spec would be a Focus and a Prius. Not everyone needs or wants a Prius and burdens - real or projected - associated with it, despite that it is a new technology.
 
DV has quality issues. At 3.7 MBps, it is a poor compression codec and compression artifacts are very noticeable.

Any professional videographer should avoid it if possible. For consumers though, it's a perfect codec for standard definition. Very easy to edit with.


Different tools for different jobs. (There was a thread around here not too long ago about "good enough") Whether it is on tape or to a card, the majority of what I shoot for clients is DV. They are always very happy with the results. And since this is how I make my living, I consider myself a professional :)
 
We do all our local production in DV where I work (a local NBC affiliate station), HD is still a little way out for us; but we will be upgrading our cameras (currently XL1's, one with a Firestore) soon. The replacements will have to be able o support regular vanilla (reliable) DV; all the other stuff will be extra. - We'll be going with P2 for this.

As much as everything seems to be going HD; still 90% of our commercials still come in on BETA-SP ... yes, analog! Some clients are just now starting to go to FTP based delivery.

I quite often run into situations where people want tapeless workflow, but do not need, or want, anything more complex than DV ... which still rains king as the seemly only universal standard digital format.

- Mikko
 
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