Dsxlr
- Thread starter combatentropy
- Start date
Too small for pro use - chuck the XLR's.
NX1 and GH4 are really the right size but adding some modularity would be the next step up.
This is something (in concept) that should appeal to the pros more.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1093267-REG/mamiya_020_00324a_ixr_kit_camera_af_120.html
NX1 and GH4 are really the right size but adding some modularity would be the next step up.
This is something (in concept) that should appeal to the pros more.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1093267-REG/mamiya_020_00324a_ixr_kit_camera_af_120.html
stoneinapond
Veteran
Why not go wireless?No XLRs is the deal breaker for me.
Darren Levine
Veteran
not medium format? pass.
combatentropy
Veteran
This was an exercise about seeing whether you could integrate XLRs somewhere on a DSLR body. There are many advantages to such a body.
Let's review the three basic bodies:
1. Shoulder. It's hard to find fault with the classic Betacam shoulder-mount body style. Mainly because it's so big, it accomodates: a long-range, large-aperture, heavy-duty lens; multi-hour battery; viewfinder; shotgun mic; handheld mic; wireless mic receiver (or two); light; lots of buttons for quick access to lots of changes. However, it also has disadvantagess: it's more expensive, because for one thing economy of scale, they'll never sell as many as other types of camcorders. Also there is the Viewfinder Vulnerability, which freaks me out probably more than is realistic, but still it's there. If you have one eye in a viewfinder, one eye closed, and a rig that mostly blocks your right-side angle of view, you're more likely to walk off a cliff or in front of a truck. Hardly ever happens, but it's a strike against it. There's also the intimidation factor. You stick out like a sore thumb at, say, a wedding reception, and following someone with one of those things eerily resembles a sniper rifle. Probably not a big difference, but it puts non-actors on edge and will affect the environment.
2. Handicam. This category encompasses most non-shoulder camcorders. Namely it's anything that shoots video but doesn't hang on your shoulder, but isn't as small as a DSLR (next category). The Canon XA10 is probably as small as it comfortably gets while still accommodating a screen and XLRs, and that may be the form factor ideal.
3. DSLR. We all think DSLRs have caught on because of their price. Despite not accommodating a 15x zoom lens, long-life battery, XLRs, etc., they're cheaper than other cameras of the same picture quality. And if all you're making are silent movies (or soundtracked ones) you're good. But I think their small size is a big part of their appeal. People talk about the new Blackmagic Micro like this. "The Pocket looked like a DSLR, and I could grab shots with people looking natural, thinking I was just snapping pics. But with the Micro, I must rig a screen, it will immediately look like a rig and attract attention."
So in that vein, I was just trying to see whether we could fit all that was needed for most situations in the body style of a DSLR. The GH4 gave me the duh-moment that the screen could flip out. Not only does that make handheld video more comfortable, but it also opens up another 3 x 2" of real estate (more or less).
The most common things rigged up on a DSLR (turning it basically into a shoulder-rig and losing all its DSLR-ness) are:
- External recorder, but if the camera itself records something like 10-bit 4:2:2, no need, I think. This is in the manufacturer's hands. We can only push for it.
- External monitor, but if the camera itself has decent monitoring (I'd say at least 4", probably not much bigger would fit on a DSLR anyway) with high-enough res, and even more importantly good focus peaking or false color or whatever, do you need an external monitor?
- XLRs, but if you could fit them somewhere on the body...(ahem!)
- longer battery, this would remain, until battery density improves some year. But the DSLR stealth works okay with short battery life. If you are in grab-a-shot mode, shooting on the street, a one-hour battery is okay. When you want to use a DSLR in ENG mode, however, with XLR-powered mics, etc., you've already blown your cover. So it would be okay to also attach an external battery, too.
Let's review the three basic bodies:
1. Shoulder. It's hard to find fault with the classic Betacam shoulder-mount body style. Mainly because it's so big, it accomodates: a long-range, large-aperture, heavy-duty lens; multi-hour battery; viewfinder; shotgun mic; handheld mic; wireless mic receiver (or two); light; lots of buttons for quick access to lots of changes. However, it also has disadvantagess: it's more expensive, because for one thing economy of scale, they'll never sell as many as other types of camcorders. Also there is the Viewfinder Vulnerability, which freaks me out probably more than is realistic, but still it's there. If you have one eye in a viewfinder, one eye closed, and a rig that mostly blocks your right-side angle of view, you're more likely to walk off a cliff or in front of a truck. Hardly ever happens, but it's a strike against it. There's also the intimidation factor. You stick out like a sore thumb at, say, a wedding reception, and following someone with one of those things eerily resembles a sniper rifle. Probably not a big difference, but it puts non-actors on edge and will affect the environment.
2. Handicam. This category encompasses most non-shoulder camcorders. Namely it's anything that shoots video but doesn't hang on your shoulder, but isn't as small as a DSLR (next category). The Canon XA10 is probably as small as it comfortably gets while still accommodating a screen and XLRs, and that may be the form factor ideal.
3. DSLR. We all think DSLRs have caught on because of their price. Despite not accommodating a 15x zoom lens, long-life battery, XLRs, etc., they're cheaper than other cameras of the same picture quality. And if all you're making are silent movies (or soundtracked ones) you're good. But I think their small size is a big part of their appeal. People talk about the new Blackmagic Micro like this. "The Pocket looked like a DSLR, and I could grab shots with people looking natural, thinking I was just snapping pics. But with the Micro, I must rig a screen, it will immediately look like a rig and attract attention."
So in that vein, I was just trying to see whether we could fit all that was needed for most situations in the body style of a DSLR. The GH4 gave me the duh-moment that the screen could flip out. Not only does that make handheld video more comfortable, but it also opens up another 3 x 2" of real estate (more or less).
The most common things rigged up on a DSLR (turning it basically into a shoulder-rig and losing all its DSLR-ness) are:
- External recorder, but if the camera itself records something like 10-bit 4:2:2, no need, I think. This is in the manufacturer's hands. We can only push for it.
- External monitor, but if the camera itself has decent monitoring (I'd say at least 4", probably not much bigger would fit on a DSLR anyway) with high-enough res, and even more importantly good focus peaking or false color or whatever, do you need an external monitor?
- XLRs, but if you could fit them somewhere on the body...(ahem!)
- longer battery, this would remain, until battery density improves some year. But the DSLR stealth works okay with short battery life. If you are in grab-a-shot mode, shooting on the street, a one-hour battery is okay. When you want to use a DSLR in ENG mode, however, with XLR-powered mics, etc., you've already blown your cover. So it would be okay to also attach an external battery, too.
Last edited:
stoneinapond
Veteran
I realize that but still ... why not go wireless?
The Near-Field Connection is probably too "near" but the Low-Energy Blue Tooth would do just fine for excellent audio at under 1 Mbit/s at 50M. Costs are reasonable too.
Hypothetically speaking (since the market isn't yet) -
A fireman type helmet can hold new BMD style camera with the motion control/pan-and-scan mounting. It will then connect to the VR type glasses and an iPad (can be wired or wireless) size portable screen. Voila. A 3-in-1 design that checks all the boxes.
Last edited:
roxics
Veteran
The more I think about it, the more I thnk the C100 mkII is probably the perfect camera design for myself. That said, I haven't used one yet but we're renting one for a shoot in a few weeks so I'll be able to better tell then. From the looks of it though, it's small enough to be handheld, yet big enough to have real controls, an EVF, twistable grip and I love that style of flip-out LCD that can be viewed for various angles. Like the one on my 60D or the GH line.
I'm not a big fan of XLR jacks that mount to the top of the camera via either a hotshoe or handle. I would perfer them directly on the body itself. Feels sturdier that way.
Now if they could only add ProRes and Raw options to it.
Example image of size from: https://cameradoe.wordpress.com/2014/11/23/stockholm-photo-fair-2014/
I'm not a big fan of XLR jacks that mount to the top of the camera via either a hotshoe or handle. I would perfer them directly on the body itself. Feels sturdier that way.
Now if they could only add ProRes and Raw options to it.
Example image of size from: https://cameradoe.wordpress.com/2014/11/23/stockholm-photo-fair-2014/
Last edited:
combatentropy
Veteran
I agree, the C100 is very close. I would move the LCD screen forward, make the viewfinder detachable, and yes, find a spot for the XLRs --- the only spot that I can think of out of the way is the top, back corner on the dumb side. Then it would look something like this:
