DSLR HD and editing

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Drrezzin

Member
I know this may sound like a dumb question, but is it possible to edit any HD footage using a 32 bit computer running XP and Adobe Premiere 2.0? The PC has an AMD 5400 64 X2Dual, 2 Gigs of RAM. I know that Premiere 2.0 has HD settings, but I've never tried to edit HD yet, since I'm still waiting for the new Camera to arrive.

I can afford a Canon 7D right now, but upgrading my PC and software is a ways off yet.

Thanks,
Phil
 
Look into offline editing. You create a super low rez version of your clips (I use Streamclip for this, and convert to a rez of only 240 pixels high), then edit these low rez files in realtime. Before you grade/render, you swap out the low rez with your high quality ones and you're good to go.
 
Thanks for the info. How do you "swap" out the low rez with the high rez? Wouldn't you have to re-edit the whole thing?

Thanks,
Phil
 
it depends on your softaware and formats (I use Vegas so I can't give you Premiere specifics), but the cheap way is to go through each clip used in your media bin and through some method of right clicking, replace the clip. All it does is change the source, preserving your edits. You'll need to change your project properties after to match the new media settings. If you have After Effects and want to online in that, there's a script you can buy for 20 bucks that will swap them all automatically.
 
I have another question. When you "capture" or transfer the CF data to your PC, it comes in as H.264. But if you are using Adobe Premiere CS5, or another NLE that handles DSLR footage natively, is it automatically converted to an uncompressed format? Or do you work within the compression and even output the video compressed? Very confusing! lol

Phil
 
I think you're a bit confused on what uncompressed/compressed footage refers to. When you push record on any camera it compresses the video from the imaging block to record to your media based on the camera's compression codec. On an HVX/HPX this is DVCPROHD saved to P2 cards, on a DSLR it is h.264 mp4 saved to CF cards. This is the highest resolution you will have through post, even if you convert the h264 to an "uncompressed Apple ProRes codec." To record uncompressed footage you need an HD/SDI port with a nanoflash or ki pro mini or an equipped cpu to bypass the camera's internal compression.

Anything shot on a 7D/5D is in an h264 wrapper. The NLE's that use this footage without "log and transferring" use the original h264 wrapper, and if you were to export to current settings at the end of your project it would be an h264 mp4 codec. The h264 codec is a big reason as to why there are so many haters of DSLR's, and a big reason for many of its image problems, we won't go into line skipping.

Most NLE make you convert this footage to something else they can edit. I use a mac workflow, so I use mpg streamclip to convert clips to Apple Pro Res, then re-export an h264 file to upload online. There is a similar work around using mpgstreamclip for windows I believe.
And yeah, I think you'll be fine with those machine specs until you start doing crazy effects in 1080 although I have never edited on a PC.
 
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DCTBradJohnson said:
Anything shot on a 7D/5D is in an h264 wrapper. The NLE's that use this footage without "log and transferring" use the original h264 wrapper, and if you were to export to current settings at the end of your project it would be an h264 mp4 codec. The h264 codec is a big reason as to why there are so many haters of DSLR's, and a big reason for many of its image problems, we won't go into line skipping.
Click to expand...

Please people, quite spewing you're "facts" before you get them straight. The Canons DO NOT line skip. They BIN the pixels. They just do it quickly, hence the semi-soft image (which is subjective). The Moire and ailiasing are caused by the OLPF being tuned for stills, not 1920x1080 video. "line-skiping" is a term thrown around by newbs who just got a DSLR and shoot with their stock f4.5 zooms and their stock color/sharpness profiles.
 
Drrezzin said:
I have another question. When you "capture" or transfer the CF data to your PC, it comes in as H.264. But if you are using Adobe Premiere CS5, or another NLE that handles DSLR footage natively, is it automatically converted to an uncompressed format? Or do you work within the compression and even output the video compressed? Very confusing! lol

Phil
Click to expand...

When you transfer your footage into Premiere, it is in the H.264 codec with an MOV wrapper. This is a long-GOP codec - a group of 15 pictures, where the first frame is used as a reference for the 14 successive frames, instead of saving information for 15 in-tact frames. This saves on space, but it is a poor editing codec. The next step you need to take after transferring is converting the footage to an I-frame codec - a codec that creates actual whole frames from the long-GOP information. For PC, I recommend using Avid DNxHD. (Mac users often use Apple ProRes 422 or 422 HQ.)

Converting your footage, like others have said, does not magically generate a better image through decompression. All it does is give you a video clip with whole frames, which provides more leeway in editing, especially when you start grading or applying effects. To that, the video is 4:2:0 anyway you capture it, so you are already limited in your editing suite. There is no way to record into a better color space from these DSLRs.
 
jscottprice said:
Converting your footage, like others have said, does not magically generate a better image through decompression. All it does is give you a video clip with whole frames, which provides more leeway in editing, especially when you start grading or applying effects. To that, the video is 4:2:0 anyway you capture it, so you are already limited in your editing suite. There is no way to record into a better color space from these DSLRs.
Click to expand...

It doesn't make the footage technically better. But when in ProRess you can hide some artifacts (including some banding) and smooth out skin tones, which aren't possible while in H.264 since you're grading macro blocks.
 
I too have nearly the same equipment as Drrezzin, and am not quite sure how to perform the edits that you've just described. What I don't quite understand is swapping out the low rez for the high quality. Is it a "cut and paste" type operation? Do you place them on the timeline?
Any further details that you can laundry list would be very helpful. I'm trying to get a handle on this style of editing, as I don't have the cash to layout for a bigger, faster, beast on the Avenue, yet I need to get some projects delivered.
 
Gregus and Drrezzin.... I'll walk you through "offline" post production the best I can. So you just had an awesome shoot with your canon 7D and want to edit.

-Using your card reader/camera you copy the clips to a folder on your hard drive we'll call this "Project Folder 1"
-Using Mpeg Streamclip or some other program reformat the clips to something Premiere can use natively, an I Frame codec like Jscott said earlier, saving these clips to "Project Folder 2"
-Then using the files in Folder 2, create lower resolution copies and save them to "Project Folder 3"
-Use the lower resolution files in Folder 3 and edit your project like normal.
-When you are done with your edit and ready to export, save your project (very very important). Then close Premiere.
-Go to "Project Folder 3", and rename the folder, example "low res clips" or "Project Folder 4." All that matters is that you change the folder name, which will confuse Premiere when you open your project. It won't know where to locate your media after the file name change, and should prompt you to locate your files when you restart Premiere.
-Restart Premiere (if it's like Final Cut Pro it should prompt you to "Reconnect Offlince Media") navigate to your Project Folder 2 with the high quality clips, and click reconnect.
-Your sequence timeline will be the exact same as when you left it earlier, it will just be as if you were working with full quality media the whole time. Make sure your sequence settings match the full quality clip settings, then export to your desired codec. Also make sure not to rename anything except the folder names, your success depends on the actual clips in both folders having identical names. No copy/paste involved.

-This is a lengthy process with h264 footage, but good luck. Please correct me if I missed any steps. I really think offline editing could be overkill. If you have a fast external hard drive 7200rpm+ and a capable graphics card, your machine should be able to handle real time editing without creating lower res files to work with. You have more ram and a faster processor than I do, and I have no problems on my PowerPC dual core MacPro.
 
"Please people, quite spewing you're "facts" before you get them straight. The Canons DO NOT line skip. They BIN the pixels."

You should check your facts, because as Barry Green pointed out last week in the thread titled: Canon's Line Skipping (?)- " Only the engineers at Canon and Panasonic know how their chips work. Anyone postulating on line-skipping or pixel binning or whatever, is speculating."

This is why I said I was not going to go into it, or proclaim myself an expert like you have done. I do not consider Barry Green a "newb" by any means. I'm not a DSLR owner or fanboy. I have been paid to shoot them many times, and have navigated the workflow in post so I thought I might be of more help to the author of this thread than those simply disagreeing with the other people trying to help him.
 
DCTBradJohnson said:
"Please people, quite spewing you're "facts" before you get them straight. The Canons DO NOT line skip. They BIN the pixels."

You should check your facts, because as Barry Green pointed out last week in the thread titled: Canon's Line Skipping (?)- " Only the engineers at Canon and Panasonic know how their chips work. Anyone postulating on line-skipping or pixel binning or whatever, is speculating."

This is why I said I was not going to go into it, or proclaim myself an expert like you have done. I do not consider Barry Green a "newb" by any means. I'm not a DSLR owner or fanboy. I have been paid to shoot them many times, and have navigated the workflow in post so I thought I might be of more help to the author of this thread than those simply disagreeing with the other people trying to help him.
Click to expand...

I've read that thread and it makes some good points... but Barry Green is not the be-all end-all voice on all things in the digital cinema world. I've also read quote from Canon engineers that claim all pixels are used...
 
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