DSLR external microphones, are they good enough?

You can hook up the best mics in the world to a DSLR. The problem is not with the mics, it's the audio implementation (or lack thereof) of the cameras. They are still cameras that have video capabilities; how much do you think they invested into audio quality?

When using a DSLR you should approach it the same way that you would film and record the audio to a separate audio recorder.
 
Bob's right, but regarding your question... good enough for what?

Honestly, it does not matter if you're shooting on a DSLR, or miniDV, DVCAM, DigiBETA, AF100, RED ONE, F3, Alexa, or ______. The camera is the last place to put a mic. Get the mic off the camera and as close to the source as possible. Aside from the fact that DSLR cameras have sub-par audio circuits, these mics that are designed to go on the cameras have unbalanced output, which makes them not the first or best choice for using on a pole or away from the camera. The longer the distance you run an unbalanced mic, the more you'll harm the signal.

That said, mics marketed to the DSLR shooter (such as the RODE VideoMic and VideoMic Pro) certainly have their uses. First and foremost, they give much better reference audio on-camera, making it much easier to sync second-system audio files in post.
 
This recent thread I started is focused on mics designed to be used with DSLR cameras: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?246730-SHOOTOUT-of-the-MINI-SHOTS!

For me I think a preamp is an essential element in getting quality signal to your dslr, however, a mic like the VideoMic Pro has a 20db boost that gives you a nice signal, allowing you to turn down your camera's recording level - effectively reducing the hiss. If your camera does not have manual audio levels (i.e. you're stuck with AGC), you are not going to get decent audio no matter what you do. In that case you must record 2nd system, using an external recorder.
 
As in good enough in quality for independent filmmaking.

I acknowledge that mounting an external microphone onto a dslr probably isn't the most professional way for project execution. But this really comes down to my situation as a beginner; what I have so far, what's possible for me, and what I'm capable of.
 
Chadfish said:
This recent thread I started is focused on mics designed to be used with DSLR cameras: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?246730-SHOOTOUT-of-the-MINI-SHOTS!

For me I think a preamp is an essential element in getting quality signal to your dslr, however, a mic like the VideoMic Pro has a 20db boost that gives you a nice signal, allowing you to turn down your camera's recording level - effectively reducing the hiss. If your camera does not have manual audio levels (i.e. you're stuck with AGC), you are not going to get decent audio no matter what you do. In that case you must record 2nd system, using an external recorder.
Click to expand...

This is quite useful. Thanks Chad.
 
I think with the mics listed you could get an extension cable and make your own boom pole. Just that alone would greatly increase the quality of your projects. See, it's not the mics as much as it is the mic placement. If you are working alone you could put one of these mics, like the VideoMic Pro, on a mic stand over the heads of the talent.

What DSLR are you using? Are you dealing with manually adjustable sound - or AGC?
 
HeyAndy said:
As in good enough in quality for independent filmmaking.

I acknowledge that mounting an external microphone onto a dslr probably isn't the most professional way for project execution. But this really comes down to my situation as a beginner; what I have so far, what's possible for me, and what I'm capable of.
Click to expand...

In my opinion, no. An indy film that is ao far below par as to be unwatchable might as well not have been made at all (other than as a learning exercise). Nothing cries "amateur" louder than sub-par audio with distant, echo'y, muddy dialog. In fact, audiences will forgive less-than-perfect pictures far sooner than they will forgive poor sound. The quality of your sound kit is at least as important in the overall scheme of things as is the quality of your camera body and lenses.
 
A camera mic is great for getting reference audio, but you really should run second system audio so you can at least line up the high quality audio. Use a dumb slate, and it should be pretty easy.
 
HeyAndy said:
As in good enough in quality for independent filmmaking.

I acknowledge that mounting an external microphone onto a dslr probably isn't the most professional way for project execution. But this really comes down to my situation as a beginner; what I have so far, what's possible for me, and what I'm capable of.
Click to expand...

Well that doesn't really answer the question. Independent filmmaking is a BIG spectrum. If your doing shorts to learn some basics about how to visually shoot with the DSLR, then probably. If you intending to try and make a "Big Fat Greek Wedding" and get distribution definitely not. Some place just beyond doing camera experiments you need to get the mic off the camera and on a boom. Some place not to much farther you need to get the sound to a decent recorder. And not far up from there you need to get some better and dedicated sound gear.

However. IF your doing docs, it all kind of goes out the door depending on what can or can't be done with your subject. IF your doing narratives , very soon after learning the camera you should be looking for a sound person to work with.

If your sole goal is to have fun and post your videos on line you can stay a lot lower, if you want to go to name festivals and make a living in film you need to push it higher.

I know people who are basically making home goof off movies that call themselves "independent filmmakers" and I know folks who are independent filmmakers who have gotten distribution and are very serious about what they do.

My advice is if your starting out spend as little as possible till you know you really want to make films. Part of not spending money is spending it wisely. Get something that is good in it's category, don't buy junk.
 
Chadfish said:
I think with the mics listed you could get an extension cable and make your own boom pole. Just that alone would greatly increase the quality of your projects. See, it's not the mics as much as it is the mic placement. If you are working alone you could put one of these mics, like the VideoMic Pro, on a mic stand over the heads of the talent.

What DSLR are you using? Are you dealing with manually adjustable sound - or AGC?
Click to expand...

I currently use a Panasonic Lumix G2. I'm really hoping to upgrade to a Canon eos 60d some time this summer.
 
I concur with all who say record sound separately. I have learned to understand how important it is to get clear audio. I usually use my DVX and its xlr ports, but when I can I use a separate audio recording device. I have gotten great results with the DVcreator Location Sound Package, which you can find here http://www.dvcreators.net/dvcreator-location-sound-package-2/ in tandem with http://tinyurl.com/3oeqzto (which I rent from my school). I don't know what your budget is, but you should definitely invest in sound equipment that is quality and will last. Sharp, HD video without good sound will not produce the kind of story telling you are hoping for.
 
Here's the thing: there have been some recent posts that have illustrated what can be done with in-camera DSLR audio. Yes, it has improved tenfold with the advent of Magic Lantern (and other models that now offer manual gain from the manufacturer), though there wasn't much room to go anywhere but up. Can it give decent results? Well, perhaps... beauty is in the eye of the beholder. It's certainly passable for ENG audio. For narrative work, especially if it is to be released anywhere but the 'Net, this just won't do. Second-system sound, with good equipment, will yield much greater results. That assumes, of course, that the person operating the audio gear and swinging the boom knows what s/he is doing. All the high-end equipment in the world cannot compensate for poor technique.

When it comes to the DSLR, the camera still has a very low-end audio circuit. It's just not designed with sound in mind, but they knew they couldn't sell it for video without sound. That's the way many consumer and prosumer cameras have been for a long, long time. What these new hacks do, and what newer outboard gear offers, is to minimize the damage the camera can do to its own sound. It's still not a perfect system, and a separate sound recording setup is still going to trump it.
 
The sound section of low-end cameras (including DSLRs) is only there because they can't sell them as "video" without some kind of minimal sound functionality. And the very high-end cameras don't have particularly good sound performance either, because high-end productions never use the camera to record sound. And between these less than stellar points of reference it doesn't get much better. Your average little hand-held digital recorder has sound quality at least as good as the best video camera you can buy. People using cameras that cost more than your car have almost identical complaints about sound quality as amateurs with handy-cams (or DSLRs). There is NO substitute for good separate-system sound recording, or even mediocre separate-system sound recording, for that matter.
 
I think the question we should ask is: Good enough for what?

I'm currently on a doc project where I am using a Rode videomic pro direct into a 5d w/ magic lantern, but also in my audio kit is a CS3e and SD mixer/recorder blah blah blah. The reason for the Rode is because I will be in situations where i need the minimum amount of equipment/impact in my environment. I think for fictional works, short/feature films and everything in that direction where you can control every aspect of your environment then having a separate audio set-up with halfway decent mic and recorder is a must.

But there may be times when you need something like a dslr mic for more documentary-type projects.

So what are you using it for?
 
Ryan-Guy said:
I think the question we should ask is: Good enough for what?

I'm currently on a doc project where I am using a Rode videomic pro direct into a 5d w/ magic lantern, but also in my audio kit is a CS3e and SD mixer/recorder blah blah blah. The reason for the Rode is because I will be in situations where i need the minimum amount of equipment/impact in my environment. I think for fictional works, short/feature films and everything in that direction where you can control every aspect of your environment then having a separate audio set-up with halfway decent mic and recorder is a must.

But there may be times when you need something like a dslr mic for more documentary-type projects.

So what are you using it for?
Click to expand...

Ideally, sound recording on set for small scaled fictional shorts and documentaries.
 
HeyAndy said:
Ideally, sound recording on set for small scaled fictional shorts and documentaries.
Click to expand...

For your small scaled fictional shorts with limited distribution, I would say to invest at least as much in audio as you have in the camera. However, I agree with Ryan-Guy with his thoughts on documentary style projects. Even when you have access to the best gear in the world, sometimes it just isn't appropriate or even going to fit. Sometimes a small shotgun on-camera is "good enough for nat sound" and ya get what ya get and not get fired over it. That's why it's cool to see all these new mini shotguns coming out. On a recent snow mobile trip, we only carried what we could in small backpacks - there is no way I would have taken out a full rig with blimp, mixer, recorder, boom pole etc... It boils down to how crucial is it to get pristine audio and will your audience care?

Here is the recorded Canon 5D Mark II snow mobile example where the audio quality was not crucial, however, the results of a simple on-camera mic produced some surprisingly very clean sound - even from a great distance.

 
It sounded OK for Doc Shooting,when outside, mic placement and protection comes before all the electronics so even a windy audio sounds like C**p no matter if the recording is on the camera or on the recorder via the field mixer.And yet I hear it all too often in Pro News and outside programs on TV day in and day out even the BBC cant get away from mother nature when reporting from live events here in the UK all because the operator could not be bothered to cover the mic with a blimp or dead cat.and yet im an Amature and even I know that 60% of your production is based on the audio track,from basic OB to a major movie production.
 
Yes! (re: ext mic on DSLR)

Yes! (re: ext mic on DSLR)

Given the choice between getting tangled up with gear or being mobile, I'd rather be mobile, but it all depends on the situation and there are ways to compromise.

First off, on "fun" shoots I put a mic with a decent shag on the DSLR and call it a day. No cans, no mixer, no recorder. Of course, I've tested all this gear and at the end of the day in the editing room it's all good. Again, it depends on the situation. If I know I'll shoot an interview it'll be a shotgun mic, otherwise it's an SM58 to keep it small. I mostly shoot mono: one mic, one aim.

If it's a paid gig then I'll bring more arsenal: mics, Zoom, mixer, cables, as long as it's not run-n-gun. If it's run-n-gun, the client ain't gettin' the mixer (going back to being mobile). They'll probably get the recorder so I can monitor sound. But if it's a real hectic Michael Moore moment I'll put the mic in-yo-face and call it a wrap. OTOH I have used the mixer for run-n-gun, cuz I knew the participants were old and slow and that I wouldn't be chasin' them down the street. Again, plan for the event at hand.

Generally, an external mic on a DSLR is fine. Know your mic, mic technique, distance, put major fur on it, watch the meters. I sometimes carry a small Fiio headphone amp if I want to test on-location. Carrying Zoom, mixers, etc., is often overemphasized. I have the gnarliest blimp/shag/pole system and I live in a windy area, but it usually stays home. As a shooter/soundman, it's easy to lose the shot packin' all that gear. 'Have to compromise to do both.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top