I shot a wedding in what I thought was 24ap, but may be 24p. It's playing in a 29.97 timeline. When editing should I be using dropframe or non-drop frame timecode base? I'm editing in Premiere Pro, using the Matrox RTX100. Premiere recognizes the footage as 23.976 fps, although it's a 29.97 timeline. I want to make it DVD compatible, and someone I sent the DVD to is having trouble. Says it freezes a lot, and completely stops working towards the end, and this is the 2nd disc I sent, of 2 different brands. The footage plays fine in my player, and seems to be ok in the timeline, but should I be outputting and working in drop frame or non-drop frame, and is it going to make a difference on the DVD? Thanks for your help. ???
Drop vs. Non-Drop
- Thread starter pomerane
- Start date
Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: Drop vs. Non-Drop
24P is always shot in non-drop-frame mode.
However, the problem you're describing has nothing to do with timecode etc., it has to do with the infuriating state of home-burnt DVD's. Even under the best of conditions you'll only get maybe 75-80% compatability. Tell your friend to play it in a different player and it may work better, and when played in a computer DVD-ROM player it'll almost definitely work.
Using different media can help, using -R may be a little more compatible than +R, but the simple fact is, if you're burning your own DVD's, there are players that are simply not going to be compatible with it no matter what you do. And it's infuriating.
24P is always shot in non-drop-frame mode.
However, the problem you're describing has nothing to do with timecode etc., it has to do with the infuriating state of home-burnt DVD's. Even under the best of conditions you'll only get maybe 75-80% compatability. Tell your friend to play it in a different player and it may work better, and when played in a computer DVD-ROM player it'll almost definitely work.
Using different media can help, using -R may be a little more compatible than +R, but the simple fact is, if you're burning your own DVD's, there are players that are simply not going to be compatible with it no matter what you do. And it's infuriating.
J_Barnes
Veteran
Re: Drop vs. Non-Drop
remember that you're counting on four different parts to maintain a standard. The video has to be shot to a certain standard, it must be encoded to a certain standard, it must be burned to a standardized material in a standardized fashion and it must play in a DVD player that has implemented the standard correctly.
I agree, it's completely frustrating that there isn't more strict implementation of the DVD standards.
Just out of curiosity, what did you set as your bitrate?
remember that you're counting on four different parts to maintain a standard. The video has to be shot to a certain standard, it must be encoded to a certain standard, it must be burned to a standardized material in a standardized fashion and it must play in a DVD player that has implemented the standard correctly.
I agree, it's completely frustrating that there isn't more strict implementation of the DVD standards.
Just out of curiosity, what did you set as your bitrate?
Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: Drop vs. Non-Drop
[quote author=powerdog link=board=Events;num=1107494268;start=0#2 date=02/04/05 at 02:08:08]Barry, what have you done from a customer relations perspective when that incompatibility becomes an issue? Do you warn of the possibility at the start of a project, tell them to buy a new player, or...??[/quote]
I tell 'em up front that there's a chance the DVDs won't work in their players. I tell them that the technology is not quite working yet, and I'll do my best, but I cannot guarantee that it'll work. They don't like hearing this, of course, but the truth is what it is, whether we like hearing it or not.
For the DVX DVD, I spent the dough to get them professionally replicated from stamped glass masters, the same way Hollywood does it. But for individual home-burnt DVD's, there's not a whole lot you can do other than use the best, most-compatible media you can find, and alert them that it may not play properly in all their players... hopefully they'll have another DVD player that it'll work better in. Newer players are sometimes more compatible than older ones (but not always, and I do NOT understand why!) and the price tag isn't an indicator either... I have a couple of Cyberhome $29 players that'll play just about anything I throw at 'em.
[quote author=powerdog link=board=Events;num=1107494268;start=0#2 date=02/04/05 at 02:08:08]Barry, what have you done from a customer relations perspective when that incompatibility becomes an issue? Do you warn of the possibility at the start of a project, tell them to buy a new player, or...??[/quote]
I tell 'em up front that there's a chance the DVDs won't work in their players. I tell them that the technology is not quite working yet, and I'll do my best, but I cannot guarantee that it'll work. They don't like hearing this, of course, but the truth is what it is, whether we like hearing it or not.
For the DVX DVD, I spent the dough to get them professionally replicated from stamped glass masters, the same way Hollywood does it. But for individual home-burnt DVD's, there's not a whole lot you can do other than use the best, most-compatible media you can find, and alert them that it may not play properly in all their players... hopefully they'll have another DVD player that it'll work better in. Newer players are sometimes more compatible than older ones (but not always, and I do NOT understand why!) and the price tag isn't an indicator either... I have a couple of Cyberhome $29 players that'll play just about anything I throw at 'em.
Soliton
Well-known member
Re: Drop vs. Non-Drop
Along with the DVD(s) I've been offering clients a copy of the of project on tape (MiniDV or VHS) to do with as they please. I do this at no added cost to them. In some cases they want the finished project and the original tape recording along with DVD. I agree to a copy of the original but always keep the one recorded in camera.
No one has asked for VHS ..
Along with the DVD(s) I've been offering clients a copy of the of project on tape (MiniDV or VHS) to do with as they please. I do this at no added cost to them. In some cases they want the finished project and the original tape recording along with DVD. I agree to a copy of the original but always keep the one recorded in camera.
No one has asked for VHS ..
Re: Drop vs. Non-Drop
Are we positive that encoding drop or non-drop doesn't make a difference? Somebody said there's about a 3 minute difference between drop and non-drop over an hour, or is that just timecode. I encoded it at the best quality I could as the video is only 1 hour long, but she's having problems, and in the same places she says, so not sure why that would be. I might have to get verbatim media for those tough cases, since it's supposedly the most compatible. Ritek is really good though, and it's 8x rated, which I burn at 4x, or sometimes 2x if there's some strange problem.
A recent weva magazine talked about a speaker at the expo asking everyone about the DVD spec, and almost nobody knew it. Is there something I can do during authoring, besides making sure all the buttons link to the proper menus/chapters and that the video fits on the disc, in order to ensure a better burn/copy.
Appreciate your help.
Are we positive that encoding drop or non-drop doesn't make a difference? Somebody said there's about a 3 minute difference between drop and non-drop over an hour, or is that just timecode. I encoded it at the best quality I could as the video is only 1 hour long, but she's having problems, and in the same places she says, so not sure why that would be. I might have to get verbatim media for those tough cases, since it's supposedly the most compatible. Ritek is really good though, and it's 8x rated, which I burn at 4x, or sometimes 2x if there's some strange problem.
A recent weva magazine talked about a speaker at the expo asking everyone about the DVD spec, and almost nobody knew it. Is there something I can do during authoring, besides making sure all the buttons link to the proper menus/chapters and that the video fits on the disc, in order to ensure a better burn/copy.
Appreciate your help.
Re: Drop vs. Non-Drop
The only difference IS the timecode, not the video. You're not dropping frames because they're already dropped in order to accomodate the sound. The drop-frame timecode is there to keep the timecode accurate.
Not only can I not think of how non-drop could cause the problem you describe, while I don't use Premiere, I can't imagine any DVD-compliant MPEG exported from it would be in non-drop timecode, anyway. Nor would any authoring program encode an MPEG file with non-drop. If you haven't messed with any of the default settings, you should be in drop.
The issues almost certainly have to do with the problems Barry described.
Unless you're pasting paper labels on the DVDs . . . are you doing that, by chance?
The only difference IS the timecode, not the video. You're not dropping frames because they're already dropped in order to accomodate the sound. The drop-frame timecode is there to keep the timecode accurate.
Not only can I not think of how non-drop could cause the problem you describe, while I don't use Premiere, I can't imagine any DVD-compliant MPEG exported from it would be in non-drop timecode, anyway. Nor would any authoring program encode an MPEG file with non-drop. If you haven't messed with any of the default settings, you should be in drop.
The issues almost certainly have to do with the problems Barry described.
Unless you're pasting paper labels on the DVDs . . . are you doing that, by chance?
