Dreaming of Summer—Finished!

glassblowerscat

glassblowerscat

Well-known member
Some of you saw my grabs from "Dreaming of Summer," my first narrative work with the DVX. This is the whole thing. Some thoughts before you watch it:

1) The sound. It sucks. I did a stupid thing I actually know better than to do, and plugged the camera into a dirty wall outlet. That gives you the hum. I'm new at mic placement. That gives you the echo and up-and-down volume. Finally, I didn't scout well enough or have enough counteractive measures to deal with the machine noise that was all over the room. I couldn't turn the machines off, so I just lived with it.

2) The acting. Don't blame the actors for their disconnected performance. Blame me. I was trying to see if I could shoot a movie one line of dialogue at a time to get a maximum of setups for the production. The result was a miserable continuity failure. In fact, if it hadn't been for my actors being so on-task and having such good memories, it would have been worse.

3) The story. It's a non-story; just a conversation I wrote to get across a point and so that I would have something to shoot.

4) The lighting. Of all the things I was hoping to work on during this project, lighting was the one that got shafted the most. I was in such a hurry to get every shot in during our 1-day shoot that I pretty much lit just to get enough for the camera to see by. I didn't improve very much in my lighting skills.

Having said all those things, please watch this and give me any kind of feedback you have, especially in the realms of lighting and sound. This project dies here because of the bad sound and disconnected performance, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't like as much advice as you guys have to give.

Here's the movie, all nice and finished up:

http://home.comcast.net/~glassblowerscat/dos.htm

P.S. And you guys are the greatest. I learn every day hanging out here.
 
Re: Dreaming of Summer—Finished!

At first I was going to mention that the camera was moving a lot, and that you might want to think about why the camera is moving. But then I see it was kinda your style.

I understand what you mean about the one line at a time, I'm fighting that in my editing right now...
in the future try to have it where you're not always looking at the subject who is talking, I think they're called split edits.

Overall it wasn't that bad actually, I liked the mood, I bet you learned a lot from the experience, and that's what counts the most...
Good luck in the future!
 
Re: Dreaming of Summer—Finished!

Hey Glassblower. I liked the images but couldn't listen. I let the film play then save it as to my desktop, then port it over to my video box do up the popcorn and watch. my internet box has no sound. However I was not allowed to save your film and therefore can't really coment. Is there someplace I can get it downloaded? :'(
 
Re: Dreaming of Summer—Finished!

First I don't think you needed so many disclaimers...hehe.  The composition of the shots looked really good and the acting wasn't that bad.  This actually looked a lot better than most.

There were only two things that would have really helped (aside from the audio which you mentioned).

1.  You mentioned the disconnected feel of the dialogue.  That could have been solved (or at least softened) by the editing.  Use J-cuts and L-cuts so that your video isn't cutting right at the beginning and end of every line of dialogue.  I did see you do that a couple of times but it needed it a lot more.  Adversely, cutting right on the lines of dialogue like you did is a good way to intentionally make the dialogue seem disconnected if thats the mood you want.

2.  You crossed the line a lot.  Its easiest to avoid in a one on one dialogue like this.  Draw a line from the nose of the guy to the nose of the girl.  Keep all of your set-ups on one side of it.  When your shots jump across the line it is distracting to the audience.  It makes the characters appear to be changing directions.  Sometimes its ok to cross the line, sometimes its motivated by something, but in this case it was distracting.

There can be a lot more said about those 2 points but I'm not the one to write it all out, its easier to just look it up somewhere and read more about it from a pro.  :)

A minor thing I didn't like was when the camera pulled away from the conversation without motivation.  You can use the camera's distance from the subject to create or take away intimacy in the conversation.  Usually you want to push in closer to draw your viewer into the conversation.  You would pull away if you wanted to take the viewer out of the conversation, end the conversation, or introduce someone else into the scene.  But that could just be my opinion.

Overall I loved some of your shots.  The overhead stuff in the beginning was awesome and looked very pro.  The inserts and cut-aways were great and well paced. I liked the 'bell' inserts, nice stylistic touch. The whole short shows that you really cared about the cinematography, refreshing to see. The lighting wasn't special but it was far from bad.  Nice job!

Edit: I took a 3rd look and I'm curious to know if you didn't cross the line intentionally. A few times the camera drifted across the line inbetween the two (a little awkwardly) and almost motivated crossing the line. Other times the camera just cuts to the other side abruptly. I'm curious to know what you were thinking.
 
Re: Dreaming of Summer—Finished!

Thanks, everyone for commenting. To answer a few questions:

Mino: I put a download link on the page that hopefully will work for you. Sorry about that.

Phil: You're right that the constant movement was intentional. I don't know that I'd call it my style. I think that's a big part of why I did this: to see if I wanted it to be my style ;D (and now I know: I don't). You (and ExFilms) are right about the editing: should have cut the audio differently. Maybe I will yet. I guess I just wasn't thinking enough about the in/out points because I was so focused on the audio issues, and then I got used to the way it looked. There's a bad trait for an editor.

ExFilms: See my above remarks to Phil about the cuts. In short: you're right. On the subject of crossing the line: I did do it intentionally. Not always very well; this, as stated, was a learning movie, so I was doing as many things as I could think of to push my limits as a shooter. Hence the awkward handheld line crosses. Plus, some things look better in my head than they do on-camera, know what I mean? ;) I'm interested that you noticed times the camera just cuts across the line, because I thought I'd avoided doing that. I'll have to watch it again.

But in general, I tried to cross the line when something the character was saying was revealing something new about his/her thoughts. It didn't always work the way I wanted. Same with pulling the camera back from the scene; it just felt like it needed to be done at that point. Even though the characters are connected the most at that time, I felt this need to distance "us" from them. I can't really explain why, which probably means it wasn't well-motivated enough to be worth doing.

You mentioned the lighting being not bad but not "special." Any further elaboration or suggestions for next time? Lighting is the place where I think I'm most lacking. Almost every other problem I had with this movie is something that either I now know doesn't work or I messed up because I was trying to do 9 jobs at once on a one-day shoot. But the lighting is something that even if I'd spent more time on it, would only have gotten a little bit better.

Thanks everyone for your comments. It doesn't hurt to say it again: I love this place!

Ryan
 
Re: Dreaming of Summer—Finished!

Well, Ryan. You really know how to sell your movie ;)

I think Exfilms critiqued your short very well.

Personally, all the panning movements left me feeling like I needed some action -- the movement would rachet up the tension, but then there was no climax.

It looks like you learned a lot though, and I'm glad your short didn't involve the guy robbing the girl at gunpoint.
 
Re: Dreaming of Summer—Finished!

Gabe, it makes me happy that you thought "action" when you saw that, because action is what I actually would like to do eventually. That's one of the reason I had so many quick cuts and movements, even though not all of it came out the way I wanted.

And yes, selling myself is my most well-developed trait. How did you know? ;)

Ryan
 
Re: Dreaming of Summer—Finished!

Hi glasscat

Congrats on your first narrative work! The lighting actually came out very well - I thought all the shadows brought the attention on the actors

The moving shots were nice as well. Espcially teh overhead ones in the beginning - very smooth - a few movements seemed unmotivated, but overall no big criticisms

I did'nt really understand the point of the film however, so spend some more time in writing.

Ah, as for the continuity thing - I suggest shooting a few master shots (the whole scene of dialogue or, huge portions of it in one take), and then getting inserts later. You will need to make sure that your actors know the beats of the lines pretty well so that they can repeat the takes over and over again with the same delivery.

Great job overall looking forward to more!
 
Re: Dreaming of Summer—Finished!

The reason you didn't understand the story is that it was barely there. I wrote this months ago just so I would have something to shoot. Hopefuly 8) I'll be capable of writing better work when I'm trying to write a story; we'll see.

You're right; master shots are the way to do this. Next time I will. I even thought about it this time, but I was being very strict with myself, only allowing myself to get shots that I was actually planning on editing in. I just wanted to see if that would work. It doesn't; at least, not for me.

Since you mentioned the actors knowing the lines really well, I'll go ahead and plug my actors here: I had originally cast two other people in these roles. But since they had no motivation to do my free project, I was completely unable to schedule them to even be in the same room at the same time, much less rehearse and memorize lines the way I wanted. Eventually, I realized I had to recast.

Now, I had already scheduled the shoot with this venue, so it was either reschedule (with the holidays coming, so that would have meant putting this off more than a month), or replace both actors in 5 days. I ended up asking a couple actor friends of mine to fill in, and they were not only available, but great to work with. They handled everything I threw at them, even though no one should ask people to act as I asked them, one line at a time completely out of order. There was no chance for them to rehearse at all, but they did a great job for getting scripts 2 days before production.

There's my saga. I get really talkative at times like this. Someone stop me!!
 
Re: Dreaming of Summer—Finished!


Here are some suggestions on what I would do lighting for a scene like this. Keep in mind that lighting is my biggest weakness also. Like you I usually have a dozen jobs on the shoot so lighting is the first thing I give up on.

1. The male characters black shirt merged with the darkness in the background. I would have tossed a light up behind him to highlight his shoulder and hairline seperating him from the background.

2. While I did like the spots of practical light in the background (coming in through the windows, etc) there were still times when it was too dark. This could also be the quicktime compression so let me know. I would have used one light in the background somewhere to splash a little light on a far wall or across some tables. This would have added some depth to the shots while still keeping the room dark (if that was the intention). It would have also made the place feel less 'closed'. The same thing would have added to the shots of the female character. I would have liked to see light coming down on the shelves behind her just because thats what I would expect to see in a bar or coffee shop. Nothing that would over power her light but enough to give the shot more layers.

3. You had a big, dark room which would have lent itself to dark and moody lighting I think. The times that we're looking at the characters their faces are pretty evenly lit. I think I would have tried to bring the key light in closer and at more of an angle to create a more shadowy side of the face to go along with the dark and shadowy room. This bit isn't that important...just an option I felt like throwing out there. Depends on how you wanted it to look.

I just want to say again that the lighting was pretty good in this especially compared to other shorts I've seen. I wasn't distracted by the lighting at all and probably wouldn't have said anything if you hadn't mentioned it.

As for crossing the line, thats awesome that you were testing your boundaries. I've done the same thing. I think it would have worked if you crossed the line in an over the shoulder shot. So you are behind the right shoulder of the guy, and as the girl is talking you drift over to his left shoulder. That way the viewer can see the relationship of both characters in the shot as you cross. Also holding a bit after the cross before you cut to give the viewer a chance to settle into the new perspective. You've probably found them already but the cuts I noticed that crossed the line abruptly were once after he says "money" and three times after she says "just me". And finally, I know you were testing it out, but I would also limit the number of times you do it. Twice would have probably been enough here (once over and once back).
 
Re: Dreaming of Summer—Finished!


I just read your post about getting actors. Actors would love to work with you because you are paying so much attention to your project and it shows. Find a local theatre group and tell them the problems you had recruiting actors for this project. Real actors LOVE to act and I've found that most of them jump on the opportunity to be in any kind of short project and will commit themselves 100% to it. They're the same as us always wanting to practice our craft. It doesn't matter how much experience you have, doesn't matter if you cant pay them, doesn't matter if the short isn't going anywhere. Just make sure you buy them pizza or whatever and give them a copy of it when you're done. It's also a great way to make friends that may continue to help you on your projects.
 
Re: Dreaming of Summer—Finished!

ExFilms, you were totally right about the jumping across the line. I must have done that when I was making my shot list really late at night—lost track of what side of the line I was on, I guess. I think I agree with you: I did it too much anyway. But I did learn some stuff, which was the main point. I actually wanted to do what you said and do crossover from behind her, but I wasn't feeling that brave. Shouldn've just done it :-/

I am going to start trying to recruit actors from other places, just as you mentioned. There's a college here (I graduated from it). I'm not a big fan of putting college students in roles that are obviously too old for them, but for some things they work fine. Also, because of the kind of crowd I hang with, several of my friends are actors.
 
Re: Dreaming of Summer—Finished!

[quote author=ExFilms link=board=Clips;num=1101974250;start=0#9 date=12/02/04 at 15:13:25]
1.  The male characters black shirt merged with the darkness in the background.  I would have tossed a light up behind him to highlight his shoulder and hairline seperating him from the background.[/quote]

You're totally right about that. First thing I saw when I started watching my footage.

[quote author=ExFilms link=board=Clips;num=1101974250;start=0#9 date=12/02/04 at 15:13:25]
2.  While I did like the spots of practical light in the background (coming in through the windows, etc) there were still times when it was too dark.  This could also be the quicktime compression so let me know.  I would have used one light in the background somewhere to splash a little light on a far wall or across some tables.  This would have added some depth to the shots while still keeping the room dark (if that was the intention).  It would have also made the place feel less 'closed'.  The same thing would have added to the shots of the female character.  I would have liked to see light coming down on the shelves behind her just because thats what I would expect to see in a bar or coffee shop.  Nothing that would over power her light but enough to give the shot more layers.[/quote]

It wasn't the compression. It was dark in there. Darker than I realized, actually. I have this problem where things always turn out just a shade darker than I expected.

I never really thought about putting more light back there for depth; that's a helpful tip for next time (see how we learn?).

[quote author=ExFilms link=board=Clips;num=1101974250;start=0#9 date=12/02/04 at 15:13:25]
3.  You had a big, dark room which would have lent itself to dark and moody lighting I think.  The times that we're looking at the characters their faces are pretty evenly lit.  I think I would have tried to bring the key light in closer and at more of an angle to create a more shadowy side of the face to go along with the dark and shadowy room.  This bit isn't that important...just an option I felt like throwing out there.  Depends on how you wanted it to look.[/quote]

I thought the same thing as I was lighting it, but I just kept letting it go because I was in a hurry and there was at least enough light to shoot by.

As far as bringing the key light in closer, this may be a good time to tell you what kind of setup I had so you can judge what I should have done with it.

I had one twin-head work lamp, 250-750W per side variable, one smaller twin head work lamp, 150-300W per side, and one small desk lamp with a 60W bulb. :D Yeah, I'm a pro. The main front lighting was coming from a long series of track lighting over the counter, which I moved around from shot to shot.

My big work light I placed behind and to the right of the male actor and pointed at the ceiling. This gave a big flood of light over the whole area. If you check out my thread from a few days ago you can see where I placed it; it's in the last grab on the page with all the other pre-color correction shots I posted. The smaller work light I hardly used because the track lighting was working so much better. The desk lamp I used as filler every now and then. You can actually see it in the wide shot at the left of the screen, my one really major screw-up that I still kick myself for not noticing.

The other lights that were in the background were built into the room. The two work lamps and desk lamp are the only things I own. I know I should get more; I just haven't yet, and I don't really know yet what I would get if I had the money.

Maybe that will tell you better what I should or should not have done.

Again, thanks to everyone who watched and gave feedback. I appreciate your time to comment.

Ryan
 
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