Dreamcolor

P

paulcurtis

Veteran
I'm rejigging my system all around, and i have a dreamcolor here now. This perhaps isn't the ideal forum but i know Nirv, Dermot and Frank all use these and so i want to pick their brains about the best way of working with it.

I need full RGB progressive over HDMI, to use the colour engine.

There doesn't appear to be a single box that does that, or is there now? The BM range seems to offer only YUV. There is a Kona card but that's a lot more expensive (and i'm not sure it's supported in CS6 either which i also need - i need CS6 and Resolve at least plus a route to get FCP X off the macbook onto it to ideally)

So perhaps i can ask the brain trust here how they are connecting their setups?

Are some using the monitor as a second monitor via a Quadro card for example? (over display port?) I presume you loose all the video signal syncing and frame rates?

many thanks
paul
 
this is exactly what I do. However, I have, also, a Matrox MXO2 mini for monitoring out of Avid , when editing.
 
You'll need an HDSDI card of you choice plus this Gefen HD-SDI to HDMI .

The Gefen box is recommended by HP.

Have a look on the HP website for this document, Using the HP DreamColor LP2480zxMonitor for Professional VideoApplications


 
Since my Dreamcolor was cheaper, because the HDMI don`t work, I first used it as a second monitor from my graphic card and configured Premiere to send the program signal to it.
Only works to some degree.

Now I found out, that the BM HDLink Pro 3D has a RGB Display Port out.
So I gonna get one of those and swap my Intensity card for a BM decklink (SDI out).

Should work even better than HDMI over the Gefen box,
cause the HDLink has some additional tricks up in its sleeves, like simulation interlaced CRT monitors on the Dreamcolor
and uploadable 3D LUTs.

Frank
 
As far as video signal standards go, there is no difference in what an HDMI, DVI, or Displayport will pipeline. They all support both RGB and YCbCr signal formats. Your source is what determines the format. Single link HD-SDI is 4:2:2 YCbCr only. Dual link and 3G SDI support both YCbCr and RGB up to 4:4:4 12 bit 1080p. 3G supports higher non-video standard resolutions.
 
I know but since my intensity doesn't put out RGB, the only way to get RGB out of my computer and into my Dreamcolor is what I described earlier.

Frank
 
Thanks Guys,

Nirv, the geffen is around £600 (the version you linked has been replaced perhaps that was cheaper)? plus an HDSDI card at another £200ish. Whereas the BM seems around £400. Frank do you know for sure that it works, the tech specs aren't 100% clear, it does RGB over SDI and it says it 'automatically configures' for HDMI/Displayport - in my experience i hate things automatically configuring! But perhaps this does what it says properly...

The BM seems the better bet unless i'm missing something?

EDIT: obviously still need the SDI card for the BM too. It also seems that the SDI cards are all REC709, so how do you drive the dreamcolor in P3?

I don't think i could run the macbook pro to the HDLink unless it was via another BM thunderbolt adapter (possible i guess)

thanks
Paul
 
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I've just heard from BM, they say that the DeckLink HD Extreme will do it as will the Ultrastudio 3d. However only the DeckLink HD Extreme will be a PC solution and also i think it's HDMI which isn't going to help in your case.

It does seem like the DeckLink is a good converter for the dreamcolor.

Is HDSDI only 4:2:2? I can't find an SDI card that will do 4:4:4, is that dual HDSDI?

cheers
paul
 
Paul, I have no experience of using the Dreamcolor with a "video" card as I only use it over DVI and display port. I bought the Dreamcolor to be able to work in multiple colour spaces not just video and mostly work with animated content in sRGB.

The difficulty with the dreamcolor is finding a "video" card that will output RGB and be real progressive at 1080 not just PsF and still appears to be rarer than rocking horse ....
 
Nirv said:
Paul, I have no experience of using the Dreamcolor with a "video" card as I only use it over DVI and display port. I bought the Dreamcolor to be able to work in multiple colour spaces not just video and mostly work with animated content in sRGB.

The difficulty with the dreamcolor is finding a "video" card that will output RGB and be real progressive at 1080 not just PsF and still appears to be rarer than rocking horse ....
Click to expand...

So what setup do you have it with? I assumed the correct way to use it as a monitor was to shove a video signal at it, so that the motion frequency is based on the video signal and the refresh rate would be correct. Unlike running motion from a PC onto a PC monitor with a normal frequency rate and getting that ever so slightly stuttery motion cadence (oh god, not that again...)

This seems okay, however as you say the issue is getting that 1080p full progressive RGB signal. So SDI -> HDLink -> Dreamcolor would give me 4:2:2 up to 1080p30. I'd like to find out what it would take to do 4:4:4 though.

The BM stuff is reasonably priced, but perhaps the Aja stuff does the full RGB 4:4:4 directly from the card to the monitor.

Then on the workstation side i may not need a quadro card (because previously this is the only way to get 10bit out). I could use a geforce card for both resolve work and 3D work. Although Resolve works better with a dedicated UI GPU AND a CUDA GPU (but of course CS6 doesn't work that way).

I guess you have the monitor plugged into a quadro then, using it as an external monitor?

thanks!
paul
 
paulcurtis said:
I guess you have the monitor plugged into a quadro then, using it as an external monitor?
Click to expand...
Nope, Radeon 5870.

Like the vast majority of people I don't need 10 bit. BTW, OS X doesn't support 10 bit even with the Q4000.

It would be a complete waste of money for those extra 2 bits of colour precision, I am not delivering primetime drama. As for worrying about video monitor vs PC monitor frequencies, life's too short.
 
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Sorry, i've been consumed by gradeing a feature, so a string of 16hr days lately... leaves little time for anything but work-sleep-get up-go back to work-repeate

I have the Dreamcolor's hooked up like this;
Aja 3K's duallink output -> BMD HDlinkPro's Displayport -> Dreamcolor
Aja 2Ke HDSDI output -> Aja Hi5's HDMI output -> Dreamcolor
In all install's the HDSDI output feeds a BMD scope as well

the only Dreamcolor i use in P3 is the one that is fed Duallink, usualy Dci2k

There is many caveats in working in P3 on the Dreamcolor, but the show i just finished i did 12 days on the Dreamcolor in P3, and then moved the project over to our room that has a Christe2200 projector and did the last three days in there mainly doing tweaks to the shadows and noise reduction.

As good as the Dreamcolor is, it's not capable of showing shadow detali in P3, i use a LUT that i made myself in the BMD box to compensate a bit, but a trim pass is really needed in a completly accurate P3 display, currently it's a calibrated projector suite, a Dolby4200, or a Sony BVM series OLED

HP claims 97% of P3, and i do 97% of P3 work with it ;-)

I do trust it in 709, it has proven it's self once calibrated correctly.

And once in a while i do feed it directly from the GFX card in the computer, an Nvidia4800 with displayport output.

Hope that helps, i know my setup is not really what most folks have at home tho, on the good side it works really well, no the not so good side - my gear needs a return on the investment with all the baggage that brings

d
 
Dermot,

Many thanks for that. I'm slowly getting there. I noticed that dream colour is not full P3 but *almost* as you say.

I assume those are Kona cards? All dual and giving you 4:4:4? I wonder how much difference there is in 4:2:2 vs 4:4:4 for grading purposes, realistically...

I have to hit a sweet spot right now between cost/results, i may start with a 4:2:2 base, perhaps a DeckLink SDI out, into a HDLink then to the dreamcolor via display port, much like Frank is talking about. The HDLink can then do 4:4:4 and 2K at a later stage with 3GSDI. The advantage of the HDLink in the middle means that i can also get SDI out from my macbook pro via thunderbolt. I may need to go that for ingest on location and review. As you say the HDLink can also apply LUTS too which may come in useful.

Life would be simpler if the BMD stuff was RGB HDMI instead of YUV...

Unless there is a cheap SDI->RGB HDMI converter out there, there's plenty of chinese ones but there's not telling what they're doing. The geffen ranges seems overly expensive for what it's doing. The BMD setup is more cost effective at the moment...

Good luck with the project!

cheers
paul
 
paulcurtis said:
I have to hit a sweet spot right now between cost/results, i may start with a 4:2:2 base, perhaps a DeckLink SDI out, into a HDLink then to the dreamcolor via display port, much like Frank is talking about. The HDLink can then do 4:4:4 and 2K at a later stage with 3GSDI. The advantage of the HDLink in the middle means that i can also get SDI out from my macbook pro via thunderbolt. I may need to go that for ingest on location and review. As you say the HDLink can also apply LUTS too which may come in useful.
Click to expand...

Paul;

Sounds like a very good plan, i use the same path as Frank with the exception of using duallink rather than 3G

Maybe with the exception of using it in the field... the BMD needs a power cycle every time the system freq swtches or sync is intrupted.. as camera powering off etc.. if 422 is al you need, the Aja seems a better choice

For monitoring in the field i have the Sony LMD230w's that came out of the Media Composer suites, and now live in road cases for that.. they are no where near as accurate as the Dreamcolor, but they are reliable as brick outhouse


paulcurtis said:
I assume those are Kona cards? .
Click to expand...
Yea, Kona cards or the earlier (and identical, but for the name) Xena cards in Avid|DS finishing systems for 444, and Avid Media Composers for creative editing in 422

paulcurtis said:
I wonder how much difference there is in 4:2:2 vs 4:4:4 for grading purposes, realistically...
Click to expand...
IMHO, it really depends on what your sources are, and what your deliverable target is.. if i'm gradeing Epic for DCP, then yea i see a ton of diffrence... if i'm gradeing FS100 (or any 420/411@27Mbs footage) and targeting a BlueRay deliverable... then there is not nearly as much to be gained

paulcurtis said:
Life would be simpler if the BMD stuff was RGB HDMI instead of YUV...
Click to expand...

The systems i use Aja->HDMI on are fed 422 anyway, and the systems i use BMD->Displayport on are fed 444 normaly, so the combination of BMD + HDMI is one i don't have the hardware to check, but zero issues with either 422 or 444 using BMD + Displayport in my experience

paulcurtis said:
Unless there is a cheap SDI->RGB HDMI converter out there, there's plenty of chinese ones but there's not telling what they're doing. The geffen ranges seems overly expensive for what it's doing. The BMD setup is more cost effective at the moment...
Click to expand...
Cost effective oh yea, but not without issues, the LUTs impemenataion is sub-optimal, esp in P3..this is an area to tread lightly in.... but you are right there is no real options without spending 5K (ish), or if there is i'm not aware of it...

BMD is said to be working on better implemenatation of the LUT's... so stand by for psoitive change... don't think they are going to ever do anything about the need to powercycle on sync loss tho




 
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