Dracast LED Panels, old & new: thoughts and experience?

CharlesPapert said:
A lot of it depends on how you work, what kind of work you do, the size of your crew etc. I personally don't think that bare LED arrays should be pointed towards talent as it is hard on the eyes. All those little points of light are tough to look into. And the shadow pattern is pretty undesirable. If neither of those are a concern, have at it.

If diffusion is preferred, you have various options. A softbox will do the trick, but is an extra object to set up and the overall unit gains in depth. You can use a diffusion frame or even diffusion on the roll hanging off a c-stand arm positioned a short distance away, but that's even more business to set up and requires more space. Then it becomes a matter of picking the right diffusion. I would consider Hampshire Frost to be too light to properly diffuse bare LED--it will take a little of the curse off but not really blend out the individual point sources. Opal is better but still thin for my taste. With 250 you'll start to cook, and 216 is even better. The give and take is that the thicker the diffusion, you will end up with a bigger and thus softer source, but you will lose output.

A pretty good compromise would be a softbox, which keeps the system all on one stand. But still requires a little time to set up and break down.

So then it brings me back around to the diffusion panel, which pretty much live on my heads full-time, unless I was using them as a wash against a flat surface (where shadows aren't an issue) and needed the extra output. At an inch or two off the surface of the LED's, it needs to be quite substantial to do the job. And to properly work in the slot, it needs to be rigid...diffusion gel is pretty useless as it will sag in a vertical unit.

Finally--the Makrolon really isn't expensive. At $240 for a 4'x8' sheet, that is enough material to make diffusers for 16 1x2 LED panels at $15 each. The problem of course is--who has 16 panels?!
Click to expand...

I have actually been using toughspun 3007 and a sheet of opal, and doubled up 2 500 panels to make a larger source - yes it's a bit more of a pain, but the light is gorgeous and the microshadows are non-existent... It does however, lose you about a stop and a half... cheap easy solution tho. Might have a machinist make frames I could clamp to the stand...
 
Based on comparisons of products where there's a diffused and non-diffused version of LED panels available direct from the manufacturer, a stop and a half is fairly normal. At least, I say "normal" - that's what's being sold as normal.
 
Phil Rhodes said:
Based on comparisons of products where there's a diffused and non-diffused version of LED panels available direct from the manufacturer, a stop and a half is fairly normal. At least, I say "normal" - that's what's being sold as normal.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I have noticed similar... The new Dracast silver series ahve a beautiful wrap with the frosted plex "diffusion" and it's only a 2/3 loss. To those, I just add an opal, the toughspun I'm putting over the bare-bulb led panels. Any other led panel users care to comment on effective softening techniques?
 
How does anyone rate the Dracast LED500 Pro Bi-Color? How does it compare to the Aputure Light Storm bi colour?

@evolvnyc - I'm usually going through a 4x4 frame if possible. I have a BBS Area 48 and its softbox has been a lifesaver.

As light quality on LEDs improve, I'm after bi-colour panels that are durable that have barn doors and a yoke.
 
rob norton said:
How does anyone rate the Dracast LED500 Pro Bi-Color? How does it compare to the Aputure Light Storm bi colour?

@evolvnyc - I'm usually going through a 4x4 frame if possible. I have a BBS Area 48 and its softbox has been a lifesaver.

As light quality on LEDs improve, I'm after bi-colour panels that are durable that have barn doors and a yoke.
Click to expand...


I know I sound like a Dracast fanboy, but someone referred to them as sort of like Ferrari - amazing products with lacklustre quality control. I have had to return several of the units I have bought (LED2000 BiColor panel, LED1000 Bi Silver folding) but once you get ones that work as intended - they're amazing. The company is wonderful to deal with - very small and they care about making it right - you don't get lost in some phone loop overseas. I can't say enough about the support - that said, what matters is quality of light. The array of different models etc they have is dizzying. I have that exact pro b-color 500 (It's on a crazy good sale at B&H right now, comes with a ton of stuff including the $120 barndoors!) In terms of that 500 itself: It's construction is flawless, the hardware is solid, the controls are precise and the output is awesome. What I didn't realize when I first took the plunge into LED lighting is that with any bi-color panel, you are getting half the output that you would get from the exact same model in a straight tungsten or daylight version - and you're most often paying more. Having that flexibility with temp is nice, but I prefer a larger source, so I would go back and buy a daylight version, to have a stronger, more even source. That said, I still love the light and it's more than enough for a native iso of 8-- or 2k.
That series actually has a "pro" and a "plus" line, the "plus" are better - they have digital readouts for brightness (an obvious advantage) and a few other things. I have the 2K Plus Panel and it is mind-bogglingly amazing. The size of it with a 4x of spun - It's like the most gorgeous window light. I then pop the new Camlux 160 in the center to give a slight vignette to the scene and voila.

All that said, I can't compare them to many other panels other than light panel, the older light panels don't come close, but of course the Astra is a monster and wins the panel party hands down... And it's priced accordingly. Dracast certainly has it's frustrations (I just received my 1K and it came without the yoke attached - I had to call support to be sent a link on how to attach it because it wasn't online and there were no paper instructions...) Annoying? Sure, but once I started using it - amazing.
 
evolvnyc said:
I know I sound like a Dracast fanboy, but someone referred to them as sort of like Ferrari - amazing products with lacklustre quality control.
Click to expand...

It has been many many years since I would associate Ferrari with lackluster quality control. And even back then, any slight with the tolerances was due to hand assembly.
 
David W. Jones said:
It has been many many years since I would associate Ferrari with lackluster quality control. And even back then, any slight with the tolerances was due to hand assembly.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, but you get the metaphor nonetheless... unfortunately I'm not in the league of filmmakers who can afford to be intimately familiar the brand...
 
I have some of the LED500 Pro, a couple LED500 Silver series and a couple of the LED1000 folding silver series. All are bi-color.
I really like them. I have the slide-in diffuser on all of them.
The bi-color means you lose half the light if you go either full tungsten or full daylight color, but for ease of use and ease of transport I think they are good.
It also doesn't hurt that they look pretty slick.
After using tungsten and HMIs for years it is nice to have some easily portable and battery powered lights for the small jobs, anyway.

I also bought one of their AXRTEC bi-color lights on sale and it has a lot of good features such as good output, remote DMX control, digital kelvin adjustments, build-in barn doors. But it is noticeably more green than the others and that is disapointing.

I am just now setting up a small lightweight kit for simple cheap jobs that utilizes a Sony A7Sii and a two of the compact Dracast lights with even smaller 3rd one for a hairlight.
I am trying to simplify and lighten up things and they have helped me do it.
 
I just received a couple of the Silver Soft LED1000 fixtures that B&H has for under $200.

They CERTAINLY aren't 1000 LEDs... in spite of the name... so that annoys me, as that seems a bit of a deception, figuring that you can't see what's behind the frosted plastic... however, at the price, I think they are actually a pretty good value. At the dimmest setting, there's no choice of color... however, at about 7' or so (arbitrary distance, using a mark for consistency)... it outputs about 240lm, compared to the Astra Soft at 560lm.

More comps coming later... but the gist is... at the price... they are surprisingly bright, considering the misleading name. I'm guessing 250 LEDs inside... but still... plenty for a hair-light, or fill.
 
What Matt said, I picked up a bi-color Silver Series as a BH Deal Zone for $199.
It's become my go to back light and B/G light. Packs up nice n small and is practically weightless. Not much bigger than a tablet.
 
MattinSTL, I've been curious about those LED1000 Soft lights for some time now. They still do not have a photo of them.

Bill, I also bought one of the silver series LED500 bi color. Had a V-mount one and liked it so much I got the Sony L-series powered one for $199. Those are part of my cheap and lightweight interview kit.
 
MattinSTL said:
I just received a couple of the Silver Soft LED1000 fixtures that B&H has for under $200.

They CERTAINLY aren't 1000 LEDs... in spite of the name... so that annoys me, as that seems a bit of a deception, figuring that you can't see what's behind the frosted plastic... however, at the price, I think they are actually a pretty good value. At the dimmest setting, there's no choice of color... however, at about 7' or so (arbitrary distance, using a mark for consistency)... it outputs about 240lm, compared to the Astra Soft at 560lm.

More comps coming later... but the gist is... at the price... they are surprisingly bright, considering the misleading name. I'm guessing 250 LEDs inside... but still... plenty for a hair-light, or fill.
Click to expand...

Would you mind uploading a couple of quick pics of the units?

BH photo still doesn't have pics up.

Thanks!

Oh, and even better would an actual comp with the astra, but I know that takes a bit of work.
 
ozmorphasis said:
Would you mind uploading a couple of quick pics of the units?

BH photo still doesn't have pics up.

Thanks!

Oh, and even better would an actual comp with the astra, but I know that takes a bit of work.
Click to expand...

I've had a gig move to next week... and a couple that went away this week (welcome to "freelancer's blues")... but that's good for making video. I could do a video comp in my garage during the day, but it has white walls... so it could be misleading. The ideal comp IMO... is without bounce, so you know what you're truly getting off the face of the light. Of course in the real world... total lumens put into a room, and what the shot LOOKS like... are key... so maybe I'll just grab some duvee and do something in the garage anyway.

The light I'm referring to, is hopefully the one you guys are also referring to... it's the Silver SOFT LED1000... that (as you said) B&H does not picture. The face of the Astra is 11" x 11"... while the DRSS1000B is 11.75" x 4.5"... so about 40% as much "face" (ballpark, I'm not doing the math, but I guess that's close). I've included a picture of the two faces lit... because the Astra has a barely perceptible "grid" of LEDs behind the frost... while the Dracast has a clear "bar" of LED through the center, using reflectors to try to fill out the face... which it doesn't do very well. I suspect the reflector is just the inside of the extruded aluminum heatsink that forms the back of the light. Keep in mind however, at the price... what do you expect?

Another thing to notice in the "lit faces" shot... is the difference in color temp. BOTH are set to 100% daylight, and you can see the Dracast isn't even close. The DRSS1000B has a wide-range of color, but you must bring it up about 25% before it develops a usable range... otherwise it's probably around 4300. It's hard to tell as it doesn't change regardless of where I set the color dial. The Astra Soft, is of course... nearly perfect in range of color, and intensity. The Astra does turn off at the lowest dimming setting, and suddenly comes on as you turn it up... i.e. it's not going to do a "barely on" dim setting... although it does dim to about 1/4 the brightness of the Dracast.

As lighting power is exponential... I woke up this morning sort of regretting the posting of numbers for comparison. To do justice to both lights, I should do this at a few color settings and distances.

B&H had a promotion last year... totally unannounced... for NAB... where they offered the Astra Soft, with the BT module, for $1350. I never spent even ONE THIRD of that on a light before... but I'd been watching Diva 400 deals on eBay... and maybe this was an impulse use of a credit card. I gotta' say... I wish I would have bought 2. The Astra Soft is brighter than a Diva 400... and the light quality is good (nice wrap, etc)... BUT... it's preposterous to compare even a $1350 light, with a $200 light... and expect the $200 light to be "on-par". So... with that in mind, I still think the Dracast seems to be quite a bargain... and should be really effective, when used properly.

Really my main criticisms are (not counting the fact that I think the name is very misleading, as people tend to think of LED as a commodity product... i.e. how many am I buying in this shell?)... I don't like the fiddly-bits... the dim and color knobs feel quite cheap, as does the whole module... and I dislike separate power-supplies. Basically... this light would benefit from a few big 'ole zip-ties to gather up all but the AC cable, IMO. Also... the stand adapter looks a bit cheap and cheesy... Meanwhile... the rest of the light seems well-constructed. So again... I gotta' say... $200... what do you expect? Seeing Dracasts OTHER "LED1000" products... I figured this thing was going to be at least a 1x1... so when it arrived, I was a bit miffed... and seeing that CLEARLY... it's more like an LED250 (see faces shot)... well... it's off-putting that they're taking advantage of the hidden LEDs to choose that name... but... whatever... I have to remind myself that every time I think there's about to be a free-lunch... there isn't one.

Astra_Dracast.jpgAstra_Dracast_2.jpgAstra_Dracast_3.jpgAstra_Dracast_4.jpg

firehawk said:
MattinSTL, I've been curious about those LED1000 Soft lights for some time now. They still do not have a photo of them.

Bill, I also bought one of the silver series LED500 bi color. Had a V-mount one and liked it so much I got the Sony L-series powered one for $199. Those are part of my cheap and lightweight interview kit.
Click to expand...

I don't know what it is about me... but I really admire when something good can be done without spending a ton. While my sound kit has evolved through the years, and even the lighting I have is mostly for personal (or friends') use... I still gravitate toward ideas like yours. What's impressive about making a nice shot with a bunch of expensive lights? If the shot doesn't look good, and you have the best tools... *ugh*... that's a blow to the ego, but the opposite of that is making gold with affordable tools. It's a good feeling.
 
Thanks MattinSTL,
I've been curious about those SOFT lights for a few months. From the site they sounded like some sort of diffused version of the LED1000, but for such a low price I just didn't know what to expect. So after seeing your photos of the LED 1000 SOFT it looks like the regular Dracast LED1000 are much larger and of course much more expensive. While we are talking, does anyone have any experience with the regular blue LED1000? Are they really bright?

That Astra light looks pretty nice!
 
What's the advantage of the plastic soft cover compared to fabric or gel diffusion? I'm seeing more of these plastic covered LED's now. Looks like they would knock the output down more than tough spun or other diffusion.
 
Hard diffusion have been around since the early LED units (1st gen lightpanels). If properly designed, they are very efficient. I've been using an industrial material that is designed specifically for LED's--the back side collects the light and the front diffuses, so the transmission is actually better than diffusion on the roll with similar softening capability.

Tough spun is a pretty inefficient diffuser. I'm quite surprised to see it mentioned so much on this board. I haven't seen it in use on sets for a good 25 years. I'd even go as far to say that we refer to it as a punch line!
 
I probably have some tough spun laying around some where in a storage closet ...maybe I need to list it in the marketplace if someone has found new use for it.
Incidentally, that makes me think of those hair nets you find in food or drug manufacturing facilities - which can substitute as decent diffusers for cool lights if you're in a pinch. I think I still have a stash of them from when I was shooting lots of that type of footage. The extra large size still probably won't cover a 1x1 - but should fit over smaller 6" x 12" units. (wouldn't recommend trying them on your tungsten units)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top