DR40 Internal mics

[soursteezle14]

I have a shoot on Tuesday and I just recently got a DR40. I already have a beachtek with a rode mic setup on a mic boom. I'd like to use my DR40's internal mics for a second safety track (It always worries me that the beachtek battery might die, but I do like how it records straight to the 7d rather than it being all external) My question is how good are the internal mics and what would the best way to use them? I do plan on figuring out a different method after this shoot, but for now I'd like to keep my normal audio workflow.

Thanks

 

[Alex H.]

The built-in mics on any recorder are not meant to be used for dialog. You have to get the mics close, which means mounting the recorder on a fish pole (boom), which means that the meters and controls are not accessible during a take.

Further, the mics are cardioid, which is a pattern too wide for most dialog work.

Last, the mics are in a stereo array, and dialog should be recorded in mono. No matter how you aim the device, some one will always bee off-axis from one or both mics.

Unless you go fully second-system by connecting the shotgun mic to the DR-40, you're going to be wasting your time with the recorder.

Regarding the battery in the Beachtek... it's like batteries in any piece of sound gear (including the DR-40). Batteries die, period. The only way to minimize the chance of getting hosed during production is to start with a fresh battery at the start of each shoot day, and if you know that the battery life is fairly limited (most mixers, recorders, and wireless systems), go with a fresh battery change at lunch.

As for recording to the 7D, you have little/no control over the audio recording in that camera, so why keep using it when you have a better solution sitting in front of you?

 

[soursteezle14]

First off thanks for the post, I do have a couple of questions but before I get into that I'll answer some of yours.

When I said that I was recording to the 7d. I meant that I am doing this by connecting the beachtek to the 7d. I monitor audio levels in the beachtek. You're right, I do have a better solution sitting in front of me, but it's a pretty big shoot that I can't afford to mess up-- so I'd like to just stay with my normal workflow for one more shoot. I also don't have access to the shotgun mic/stand until the day of the shoot or else I would just proof it out right now. I do understand that the batteries die, the reason for getting the DR40 is so I can atleast monitor the battery in my recorder. We shoot a couple times a week, which means we change out a 9 volt before every shoot. I'd guess we spend anywhere between 60-80 dollars on 9v batteries each month (and the battery situation still scares me, as when it gets low it will start a buzzing sound). For tuesday, I plan to do what we do with every other shoot, exchange for new batteries so we don't have to worry about it.

I guess I was more just looking to try out the internal mics in my DR40, but it's not looking like that will be worthwhile. I wish we had another mic stand and another shotgun mic so I could just proof it out the right way with two boom setups.

 

[Alex H.]

When I said that I was recording to the 7d. I meant that I am doing this by connecting the beachtek to the 7d. I monitor audio levels in the beachtek.

Right, and I get that. What I'm saying is that you're still challenged by the 7D. The camera does not have a way to defeat its AGC, which quite frankly destroys the audio. If you're using the Beachtek that has an AGC killer, then you're a little better off but still recording to a lesser audio device (the 7D). Plus, monitoring from the Beachtek gives you confidence only up to the Beachtek. If you cannot monitor from the camera, you aren't listening to what's actually being recorded.

You're right, I do have a better solution sitting in front of me, but it's a pretty big shoot that I can't afford to mess up-- so I'd like to just stay with my normal workflow for one more shoot. I also don't have access to the shotgun mic/stand until the day of the shoot or else I would just proof it out right now.

If it's a big shoot, I'd take the better of the two audio solutions. You can figure the system out beforehand if you can get your hands on another mic - any mic - to play with the mic input settings and the record functions. It's pretty straightforward.

I do understand that the batteries die, the reason for getting the DR40 is so I can atleast monitor the battery in my recorder. We shoot a couple times a week, which means we change out a 9 volt before every shoot. I'd guess we spend anywhere between 60-80 dollars on 9v batteries each month (and the battery situation still scares me, as when it gets low it will start a buzzing sound). For tuesday, I plan to do what we do with every other shoot, exchange for new batteries so we don't have to worry about it.

Batteries aren't cheap. 9v are some of the most expensive. However, waiting until you hear a battery start to die is waiting too long. You probably have a decent idea of what battery life is in your Beachtek by now, so try to beat it. If you can keep a battery in there for two full shooting days before it's gone, change it every day. If you can keep it in there for one full day, change it twice a day.

Batteries are listed under "Expendables" in production, and those are items that may not be terribly pricey per unit, but the amount of them consumed over a production can add up fast. You have to anticipate that, and budget for it. In budgeting for batteries, you should account for fresh batteries in every device a least twice a day.

On the plus side, once you have this whole thing ironed out and move to using the DR-40, you're free from 9v batteries and reliant on AA batteries, which are much less expensive.

 

[soursteezle14]

Right, and I get that. What I'm saying is that you're still challenged by the 7D. The camera does not have a way to defeat its AGC, which quite frankly destroys the audio. If you're using the Beachtek that has an AGC killer, then you're a little better off but still recording to a lesser audio device (the 7D). Plus, monitoring from the Beachtek gives you confidence only up to the Beachtek. If you cannot monitor from the camera, you aren't listening to what's actually being recorded.

I do have an AGC killer, and a pretty good post audio process that gets rid of gain noise. Which is why I'm going to stay safe and use the audio solution I know for now-- it actually works pretty well.

I honestly don't have a great idea of what the battery life is on my beachtek. Instead I just change before every shoot to play it safe, haven't had any issues but it's still something that makes me nervous, as there's no way to monitor the battery life via beachtek. After the shoot tuesday I'll bring home some equipment so I can be sure everything will work fine once I use it in the studio

 

[davefisk]

I don't rely on the internal microphones of any handheld recorder for anything. The DR-40 is great for running line level into, though, and that's the way I would go, and then sync it up in post.