DP Rates for Feature Films

Eric Coughlin

Eric Coughlin

Veteran
I've mostly been offered to DP films in the $100k-$200k range thus far, of which I quote much lower day rates than my standard corporate/doc rates.

I'm currently in talks to DP a six million dollar budget film and wondering what typical DP rates are for that. One, labor rate, and two, equipment rate. In my case, I'd likely be bringing around $200k of my own equipment on the shoot.

I always find with these topics (such as when I'm skimming old topics on the Interwebs) the only posts that are actually useful are the ones that mention specific rates, and any posts that say things like, "It depends," are useless information. If it depends, then one could give specific scenarios that include actual numbers within the confines of what it depends on.


Aside from the specifics of that, I'm always curious to hear what DPs on features are making at various levels. Google shows Roger Deakins has a net worth of 84 million, Emmanuel Lubezki at 10 million. What are DPs on 50-200 million dollar budget movies typically making per film? One million dollars? How about at the 10-20 million dollar movie budget level?


Err...remembered I did a similar topic from last year, but can't seem to delete this post and this topic does deal with asking for more specific numbers, I guess.
 
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https://nofilmschool.com/2016/07/how-much-you-can-expect-make-working-cinematographer

http://blog.ambientskies.com/what-are-common-rates-for-camera-operators-dps-other-dits



CINEMATOGRAPHER

$5K-$30K A WEEK

Top directors of photography, of which there are probably about 10 to 15 in the industry, can command $25,000 to $30,000 a week on movies that shoot up to 12 weeks — maybe even a little more, according to insiders. That select circle of top cinematographers would include 11-time Oscar nominee Roger Deakins, Gravity Academy Award winner Emmanuel Lubezki and Martin Scorsese's frequent collaborator Robert Richardson. On a big-budget studio movie — say, $80 million or more — an experienced cinematographer can expect to earn $10,000 to $20,000 a week. On a low-budget indie fare, DPs often take home $2,000 to $5,000 a week. On TV productions, the range is $5,000 to $8,000 a week.
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https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/hollywood-salaries-revealed-movie-stars-737321
 
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If the Roger Deakins net worth number is accurate, at $30k per week he'd have to work 2800 weeks of non stop work to get to 84 million dollars. That's 54 years of non-stop work, and his first IMDB credit is from 44 years ago.
 
Do they pay you for your work, for your name or for your equipment?
There are different ways to get paid, basic salary, bonuses, percentages of revenues etc.

As publisher of the freelance rate-guide my advise is: get a good agent who has more DP's as a client and who knows the market. FInding the right agent is easy, try to get the one with the best earning DP's in his 'portfolio'.
 
I can only speak to TV, where I work in US Network and Streaming. Last show I did was 4.7m per ep and the current one is 12m per ep.

It’s 7-10k per week less agent fees (15%) plus if you’re away you get various bumps and allowances for a car etc.

JB
 
Eric Coughlin said:
If the Roger Deakins net worth number is accurate, at $30k per week he'd have to work 2800 weeks of non stop work to get to 84 million dollars. That's 54 years of non-stop work, and his first IMDB credit is from 44 years ago.
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$84M is clearly a fake figure, since many a top movie director won't accumulate that much wealth.

I'd speculate that Deakins is taking in the neighborhood of $800,000-$1,000,000 for three-four months of actual shooting. Most tops DP's make probably in the $400,000-$600,000 range for 10-12 weeks. When you're making a couple of films a year, it adds up... but not to $84M, especially since they also have to pay taxes.
 
Yes. Most of the "net worth" figures you see on the web are complete conjecture. I have a few actor friends who I have teased about their reported multi-million net worth, knowing that they are living basically hand-to-mouth like most working shmucks!

John Brawley's numbers are pretty accurate, I'd concur at $7-10K a week for most journeyman DP's on good size (union) productions, although thankfully 10% is more common for agent commissions! For a $6 million non-union feature I would expect in the vicinity of $5K a week. Important though to negotiate based on an hourly wage, not a flat fee--we are below-the-line wage workers, have no back end and thus need to be eligible for OT pay. Never take a flat fee unless it works in your favor (i.e. you end up working less hours, which isn't common).

Gear is an entirely separate negotiation and sometimes production will try to conflate the two. Important that they don't look at your overall take as a lump sum and try to negotiate you down. I have the camera packages priced out by the rental house, the producer negotiates the discounts then my gear is broken out from their gear and the same discount applied to all. It's the fair way to do it and protects both you and the rental house from favoritism.
 
Hey Charles.

I would say most of the deals I’m on are for 14 hours, no OT till after 14.

That seems to be pretty standard, I think the idea being that most HODs are presumed to be bought out. (Designers etc)

Agent is 10% , manager is 5% in my case.

Not everyone has both I guess.

JB
 
Oof man, that's a tough deal...here in the states our standard union contracts (which are essentially mandated by state labor laws) have us on 1.5x after 8, 2x after 12. There are exceptions here and there but that's the basic math.

Agent AND manager! Above the liners have that here but I don't think I know of any below the liners that have a manager. Interesting!
 
Charles' point about separating your gear rental and your salary is extremely important. For one it keeps you from getting screwed out of your rental fees, and two it keeps you taxed properly between salary and kit fee. You should not have to pay personal income taxes, social security, etc. on your gear rental. You should have an LLC or Subchapter-S Corp. entity for your equipment rental. You should also look to arranging with the rental house to administrate your gear rental through them, as in they subrent the gear from you to rent to the production. They do it as a pass-through with no additional cost to you but then they handle all of the administrative work with insurance and billing with the production company. This is pretty common and the "price of doing business" for the rental house to maintain a relationship with you and the production.
 
CharlesPapert said:
Yes. Most of the "net worth" figures you see on the web are complete conjecture. I have a few actor friends who I have teased about their reported multi-million net worth, knowing that they are living basically hand-to-mouth like most working shmucks!

John Brawley's numbers are pretty accurate, I'd concur at $7-10K a week for most journeyman DP's on good size (union) productions, although thankfully 10% is more common for agent commissions! For a $6 million non-union feature I would expect in the vicinity of $5K a week. Important though to negotiate based on an hourly wage, not a flat fee--we are below-the-line wage workers, have no back end and thus need to be eligible for OT pay. Never take a flat fee unless it works in your favor (i.e. you end up working less hours, which isn't common).

Gear is an entirely separate negotiation and sometimes production will try to conflate the two. Important that they don't look at your overall take as a lump sum and try to negotiate you down. I have the camera packages priced out by the rental house, the producer negotiates the discounts then my gear is broken out from their gear and the same discount applied to all. It's the fair way to do it and protects both you and the rental house from favoritism.
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On union shoots where do you draw the line as far as equipment rentals? E.g. if you and your 1st AC both own the exact same lens sets, do you walk away with the rental fee because of your seniority? I imagine people would be pretty upset if one person tried to take absolutely everything from the rental budget just because they owned lots of equipment?

Is it frowned upon for certain positions to accept rental fees for pieces of equipment outside their department? For example, if the DP owned a Ronin 2 gimbal set up, would that be stepping on the toes of gimbal operators trying to get their own equipment on the shoot? Or a DP bringing a pair of titan tubes is fine, but getting the rental fee for 40 tubes on a shoot is taking it too far?
 
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rob norton said:
On union shoots where do you draw the line as far as equipment rentals? E.g. if you and your 1st AC both own the exact same lens sets, do you walk away with the rental fee because of your seniority? I imagine people would be pretty upset if one person tried to take absolutely everything from the rental budget just because they owned lots of equipment?

Is it frowned upon for certain positions to accept rental fees for pieces of equipment outside their department? For example, if the DP owned a Ronin 2 gimbal set up, would that be stepping on the toes of gimbal operators trying to get their own equipment on the shoot? Or a DP bringing a pair of titan tubes is fine, but getting the rental fee for 40 tubes on a shoot is taking it too far?
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I can't speak for anyone else on this but I have my own philosophies about it. The first thing is that the budget is the budget, and it is mine as the DP to apportion however I see fit as long as I keep it within the numbers that production has given me. Thus, I decide what the package will be, including preferences stated by the director and production if applicable (i.e. there are generally post guidelines that dictate resolution and acceptable formats/codecs and I have to choose the camera within that, or be prepared to argue my case).

After that, the reality is that I am the boss of my three departments and thus get first dibs on subrentals. I accommodate my AC's who own gear except where it overlaps with mine. That is discussed before they commit to the show so there is no confusion. So yes, if my AC owned the same lenses, theirs will sit at home. I'm the one hiring them, after all! And it is their choice to take the job. The electric package is almost always coming from a rental house so no-one would really care if I supplied 40 tubes or 4, but I have very limited gear in that department because it is bulky to store and relatively low return compared to camera (brutal rental deals here in LA).

I think there are limitations to this. If one was to hire a gimbal op who has a comprehensive, possibly customized package and force them to use an older stock unit that one happens to own, I think that is a bad choice that will ultimately hurt the results. Likewise, if I owned a bunch of janky old lights that were always breaking down and made my electric dept. use them instead of newer and more reliable gear, I think that is greedy also. I do try to keep my gear current and in good condition to avoid frustration amongst the crew. A fair amount of my rental gear is customized to work more efficiently than the stock items from rental houses and I spend a lot of time between shows thinking about how to streamline things. For instance, my video village monitors come with a base I designed that manages the cable flow, incorporates DA's for sound, dimmer board op etc. to pull their feeds, plus at the front it has an integrated power strip and padded dividers at the front with individual cel phone cables for the folks at village. And all I charge for is the monitors, but it is greatly value-added.
 
So in the corporate world I typically go off of day rates for equipment rental, two days is twice the cost of one day, three days is three times the cost, etc. But for longer rental days, like a 10-40 day feature film shoot, daily rental rates are expected to be reduced. What is standard in these terms? Say an Amira with a tripod and SmallHD monitor at $1500 per day for a corporate job, what would the rental be for a 20 day six million dollar union feature?
 
Depends on the market. Smaller markets often are able to give less discount because less competition. I'm in the most competitive market there is so I would expect something like a 3-day week at 60% discount in that scenario (which is essentially a 1.2 day week). Shitty? Yep.

You are obviously going to need more gear than that, so as I and Mitch pointed out above, build your desired package, get it out to bid at rental houses that would service the shoot area and let them know what gear you are going to be providing out of that package, and let them and the producers haggle the discount.

Separately--congrats on getting a $6 million feature! I have yet to shoot one of that size myself.
 
CharlesPapert said:
Separately--congrats on getting a $6 million feature! I have yet to shoot one of that size myself.
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Eh, don't congratulate me quite yet as it's just "in talks" at this point. The producer likes my work, but there are red flags such as the producer has never done a movie before (not even a short film), while there are uncommon green flags like he said they already have funding in place for the movie and some of the things he said such as working with a legal department, the movie being union, having SAG actors, etc., sounds legit enough.

I get feature film offers perhaps once a month on average, but most are in the $10k to $200k range, a large percentage don't have any funds raised yet (and likely never will), and most are from inexperienced producers. My advertising is mostly online, so I assume experienced producers often already have DPs they know, while the inexperienced ones will turn to Google to find a DP, hence where I fall into place. And then there are on occasion inexperienced people who have money and the ability to make things happen. This is the biggest budget film that I was told already has funding that has considered me, but I'm not getting up my hopes too high.

The producer of this one also said they already bought one or two Red cameras for the production, I informed him that I own Arri cameras which are generally considered better than Red and way more popular on big budget movies, he didn't seem to know of Arri, and wasn't sure where that would leave their Reds if they hired me. I think the executives above him were hoping I'd use their Reds, but I'm thinking, "If you've got a six million dollar budget, you can afford to rent my Arris. Sorry you bought cruddy cameras." I really don't like working with Red cameras.


By the way, I've wondered, why don't you shoot more features? You Steadicam opped on features, then jumped into DPing TV shows, but not features. Why so? Would have been cool if you could have shot Jordan Peele's latest movies.
 
Eric Coughlin said:
By the way, I've wondered, why don't you shoot more features? You Steadicam opped on features, then jumped into DPing TV shows, but not features. Why so? Would have been cool if you could have shot Jordan Peele's latest movies.
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I have been offered many films over the years, but after specific experiences, I created a rule of thumb for myself: great script or good paycheck. Nearly all that I have been offered fall short in both areas.

One thing I had little interest in was shooting low budget horror films as that is not a genre I care for all that much (and again, I wasn't offered the ones that had intriguing premises--this was more in the "torture porn" era). The interesting thing is that a lot of the DP's who came up that way have been getting the nod now. I was overlooked for "Get Out" because I wasn't a "genre" DP who had worked with Blumhouse before...that was frustrating. What can you do.

Wouldn't mind shooting a feature now but it is hard once you have established as a TV DP, there is some snobbery there. Honestly I'd be just as happy shooting a really strong episodic series, so much good work going on there and you don't have to wait a year for it to come out.
 
CharlesPapert said:
I can't speak for anyone else on this but I have my own philosophies about it. The first thing is that the budget is the budget, and it is mine as the DP to apportion however I see fit as long as I keep it within the numbers that production has given me. Thus, I decide what the package will be, including preferences stated by the director and production if applicable (i.e. there are generally post guidelines that dictate resolution and acceptable formats/codecs and I have to choose the camera within that, or be prepared to argue my case).

After that, the reality is that I am the boss of my three departments and thus get first dibs on subrentals. I accommodate my AC's who own gear except where it overlaps with mine. That is discussed before they commit to the show so there is no confusion. So yes, if my AC owned the same lenses, theirs will sit at home. I'm the one hiring them, after all! And it is their choice to take the job. The electric package is almost always coming from a rental house so no-one would really care if I supplied 40 tubes or 4, but I have very limited gear in that department because it is bulky to store and relatively low return compared to camera (brutal rental deals here in LA).

I think there are limitations to this. If one was to hire a gimbal op who has a comprehensive, possibly customized package and force them to use an older stock unit that one happens to own, I think that is a bad choice that will ultimately hurt the results. Likewise, if I owned a bunch of janky old lights that were always breaking down and made my electric dept. use them instead of newer and more reliable gear, I think that is greedy also. I do try to keep my gear current and in good condition to avoid frustration amongst the crew. A fair amount of my rental gear is customized to work more efficiently than the stock items from rental houses and I spend a lot of time between shows thinking about how to streamline things. For instance, my video village monitors come with a base I designed that manages the cable flow, incorporates DA's for sound, dimmer board op etc. to pull their feeds, plus at the front it has an integrated power strip and padded dividers at the front with individual cel phone cables for the folks at village. And all I charge for is the monitors, but it is greatly value-added.
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Thanks Charles, great answer!
 
Eric Coughlin said:
... he didn't seem to know of Arri,
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This reminds me of a Woody Allen joke from "Take the money and run", where a small time crook falls in love with a beautiful woman.

"I told her that I was a professional musician but got into trouble when she mentioned Mozart and I couldn't place the name".
 
Well with "Take the money and run" in mind, I should probably just quote them one million dollars and if they question it I can assure them that is how much a DP for a feature film costs.


I'm sometimes tempted to (and once did) send clients with absurd requests this video in answer to their request for a quote.




Okay, so I pulled up this interaction with someone who reached out to me...

E-mail subject: Price for music video
E-mail Content: Empty, they must not have realized that the subject line is not where you put a message's content.

My reply: [One million dollar video link] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l91ISfcuzDw

E-mail subject: I see a 2, do you mean 200 dollar or it's the video you sent saying 1,000,000 dollars

[I have no idea where they saw a 2.]

My reply: The cost of a music video would be one million dollars. I thought Dr. Evil made that clear. I really think it's best not to skimp if we're going to be competing with Taylor Swift.

E-mail subject: Ok, thanks, my son is a upcoming local RAPPER from Birmingham,AL. We are trying to get a music video shot. Do you have any body you can referr me to.Thanks
 
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