Doing an MFA in Film: Yea or Nay?

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intrinsic pictures

Member
I'm graduating this fall with my BA (not in film) and so it's decision time. If I do pursue a graduate degree, be it film production or anything else, I want to get it out of the way now and not wait around a few years.

Film looks like the most attractive course of study for me as a graduate student but I have no idea how much it will actually help me in the future when trying to find work in this industry, how much it would build my skills compared to just jumping into the real world now, if it's worth the time/money/effort etc.? I should say that I don't have much interest in being a teacher or professor. I'm only doing this if it will help me actually make films!!!

Keep in mind that student loan debt is not really an issue for me. I've been working since I was 17 and I've never had to go into debt for my education and I have enough money now to at least get through my first year of grad school, granted it's not a crazy expensive program. I'm most likely going to do it at a state college. It's also likely that at least some scholarship money will be available.

Anyone been there / done that? Advice, warnings, anything would be greatly appreciated.
 
intrinsic pictures said:
...but I have no idea how much it will actually help me in the future when trying to find work in this industry, how much it would build my skills compared to just jumping into the real world now, if it's worth the time/money/effort etc.? I should say that I don't have much interest in being a teacher or professor. I'm only doing this if it will help me actually make films!!!
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It won't, nothing replaces real world work, not really IMO unless you want to become a teacher or professor. Oh. ;)


-Andrew
 
Agreed that it won't help you learn the craft like hands-on experience will. But if you are looking for a staff job in the corporate world (vs freelance and contractor work), the MFA is almost a prerequisite for the resumé,
 
Learning the craft is my goal.

Please forgive my ignorance - Would a corporate staff job allow me to be directly involved in film production or are we talking about all the jobs that keep a film corporation ticking like admin, budgeting, planning, marketing, PR, etc...?
 
A corporate staff job would mean you are writing, directing, producing, shooting and/or editing as part of the in-house video production team. You would not be making movies in this case but most likely commercial/promo material, training videos maybe 'history of the company' pseudo-documentaries, etc.. There are relatively few staff jobs in this industry and even fewer if you want to work on movies or TV shows.
 
adkimery said:
A corporate staff job would mean you are writing, directing, producing, shooting and/or editing as part of the in-house video production team. You would not be making movies in this case but most likely commercial/promo material, training videos maybe 'history of the company' pseudo-documentaries, etc.. There are relatively few staff jobs in this industry and even fewer if you want to work on movies or TV shows.
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I couldn't have said it better myself. Thanks, Adkimery. Corporate staff jobs have another perk...they give you access to great equipment to shoot your own independent stuff on the weekends. I have lived in both worlds (freelance and staff). More money in the freelance world, but MUCH less stressful on staff. However, I find that freelance is drying up these days because companies are finding that it is more economical to have media departments in-house, especially now that everyone wants a digital presence (youtube, websites, etc.).
 
cyclone said:
I couldn't have said it better myself. Thanks, Adkimery. Corporate staff jobs have another perk...they give you access to great equipment to shoot your own independent stuff on the weekends.
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You also get paid vacations, paid holidays, paid sick days, group heath coverage, steady work (until your entire department is laid off w/o notice a week before Xmas...).

I feel like staff and freelance can be cyclical in the corporate world. It starts out freelance because the company can't afford to buy all the gear to do it in house and it's just easier to let someone else mess with it. Eventually they get sick of paying an outside party so they bring it in house and amass the gear they need over time. Then they end up with a bunch of aging gear taking up space, new gear they loathe paying for and suddenly outsourcing it seems enticing again. ;)


-Andrew
 
I chose a different route. Dropped out of engineering college, held a full-time job, and got my first feature completed for pennies, sold, etc. I realize that's not a typical story or route, but it's boosted my personal business now as I work for myself, given me extra income, etc. I'm gearing up for #2. Building a longterm residual income movie to movie is a big goal here. I want to wake up one day without any debt and ready to make whatever movie I want to, while working and doing freelance as I please, not as I absolutely HAVE To. It sounds like a dream, but in time I think I'll get there.

Few have any interest in such a way of doing things and I know exactly why. It's rough, it's uncertain, it's scary, exhausting, etc. You'll definitely kill yourself for every dollar you get, but I'm confident that things will pay off. The first film paid off in spades...looking to strike oil again if I can on #2, #3, etc.

I hope you find your way. There's no formula in this space. You're gonna have to bust your rear end no matter which path you pick.
 
adkimery said:
A corporate staff job would mean you are writing, directing, producing, shooting and/or editing as part of the in-house video production team. You would not be making movies in this case but most likely commercial/promo material, training videos maybe 'history of the company' pseudo-documentaries, etc.. There are relatively few staff jobs in this industry and even fewer if you want to work on movies or TV shows.
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Thank you adkimery. Am I wrong in thinking that this doesn't sound all that exciting compared to freelance work? And also that it's probably quite hard to land one of these jobs regardless of having a graduate degree since there are relatively few? That doesn't make an MFA sound like a terribly good investment. That being said, I wouldn't complain about a paying job that actually allowed me to learn the craft and gave me access to the needed equipment.

KyleProhaska said:
I hope you find your way. There's no formula in this space. You're gonna have to bust your rear end no matter which path you pick.
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Thank you Kyle. I like the path you have chosen in that at least you are doing what you love right from the get go, even if it's scary hard work and scary risky at times. I have a loose circle of filmmaking friends and actors but I just feel like I could spin my wheels here forever if I didn't take some drastic steps to bump things up a notch and really try to make a breakthrough somehow, somewhere, with someone.

I need to set a reasonable but still ambitious goal. I just don't know what that is yet. Once I finish school later this year I will be free to do whatever it takes.
 
If you have the resources to get an MFA without overwhelming student debt, yea. There is no downside to having that on your resume and 10-20 years from now when you have who knows what, kids, mortgage, etc., going to school again may not be an option.

You don't want to be a professor now. But what about 30 years from now when you have a lot of experience to share, but not the education to get you the job?

At least put in the applications. You may be surprised at how hard it is to get into some MFA programs.
 
Thanks for the perspective Gillvane. Maybe there really isn't any downside (besides some time and money) to doing the MFA and that's a good point about possibly wanting it later on but not having the ability to do it anymore. Even if it doesn't help me that much in the short term I suppose it's good to have, right? I mean, people aren't going to turn me away because I have it are they?

Gillvane said:
You may be surprised at how hard it is to get into some MFA programs.
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I'm sure there are a few very desirable and famous programs out there, beyond that however what would be the reasons for this? Will most programs only take a small number of students per year?
 
I don't know much about Film MFA programs specifically, but as someone who's been in academia for a while and has met and known many filmmakers and film scholars in that context, I'd say that school has its own kind of value beyond professional advancement. It's a safe, encouraging environment that allows you to experiment and exchange ideas, and where you're exposed to things (like avant-garde artsy things, classical things) you otherwise don't, or at least not in the same purist way. It's a place where you can become as naive and as sophisticated as possible, without suffering real consequences. Whenever I go on vimeo I see a lot of young people riding the DSLR revolution and calling themselves filmmakers, but their film history extends to Tarantino and they have no idea that their big ideas have all been done before and better. Even worse, they unwittingly and uncritically parrot all the Hollywood cliches they've internalized and think that's all there is. Yes, there're plenty of high-minded starving artists who're stuck in school because they can't "make it in the real world," but there're just as many vulgar hacks in the real world. It's a false dichotomy--school is just as real if you take it seriously.

Which is why, since you're a fresh graduate, I'd suggest unreservedly that you go do something first for a few years instead of going straight back to school. Only then will an MFA mean something. Maybe work for a production company yes, but you can also write movie reviews, work in some indy theater, teach English in Asia or Africa, translate movie subtitles in Europe, whatever you can to support yourself.
 
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Thank you aly324, all very good advice. After seeing what I've seen in my time as an undergrad I understand what you are saying about taking school seriously. I've always taken school seriously largely because I've earned all the money to attend school myself and over the years I've decided that I have to make something of myself in a creative role / industry because I would go crazy working the brainless jobs that I've done just to get this far. I want a job that allows me to be inspired, to tell stories and create beautiful things that might last for decades.

A few have suggested to me taking some off years and while I don't disagree with their perspective I am a little concerned that if I was away for more than a year or so it would be too hard to rein myself in and get back to school.
I've already taught English in Asia haha! Just as a side gig last year while I was doing a study abroad program. Working for a prod company, writing reviews, working at an indy theater all sounds really great. Perhaps a year wouldn't hurt. Who knows what will happen during that time anyway.

Thanks again for the advice and words of experience everyone. I hope to be in a position to contribute to this community in the future!
 
intrinsic pictures said:
I want a job that allows me to be inspired, to tell stories and create beautiful things that might last for decades.
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Then don't dismiss the MFA. Film school is a blast! And it is one way to do exactly what you are looking for. And you are surrounded by other creative people that have similar goals.
 
intrinsic pictures said:
I'm sure there are a few very desirable and famous programs out there, beyond that however what would be the reasons for this? Will most programs only take a small number of students per year?
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Most MFA Film programs from reputable schools accept a small number of students compared to the applications they receive. If you really want to go put in more than one application. The competition can be very stiff.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/25-best-film-schools-rankings-215714
 
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Gillvane said:
Most MFA Film programs from reputable schools accept a small number of students compared to the applications they receive. If you really want to go put in more than one application. The competition can be very stiff.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/25-best-film-schools-rankings-215714
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Right, and that'd be a practical reason to take a year (or two) off--to accomplish something that'll distinguish yourself from the other candidates and get into a reputable program that can open doors.

This hardly needs restating, but you never know how connections are made and what experiences become meaningful and salient later on. I was just sorta rattling off an obvious list of jobs you could do, but the world is open to you at 22. A colleague was just telling me that her college roommate bounced from place to place and job to job for a decade as a "diving bum," until the stars lined up and she finally realized she could turn her passion and experience into a career... and now she's on a team of deepsea treasure hunters, which is to me mindblowingly amazing. Even if you're not a trust fund baby, chances are you still have more luxuries and freedoms than most other people your age outside the most developed countries, as you probably realized during your summer teaching gig. You should take advantage of them.
 
Not to be the killjoy, but what is an MFA degree going to get you down the road?

Why not a degree which would be helpful in any field you decided to choose?

I know plenty of people who thought they wanted to be hot and heavy into film production, and then 5 years down the road wished they had studied something else.
 
aly324 said:
Right, and that'd be a practical reason to take a year (or two) off--to accomplish something that'll distinguish yourself from the other candidates and get into a reputable program that can open doors.

This hardly needs restating, but you never know how connections are made and what experiences become meaningful and salient later on. I was just sorta rattling off an obvious list of jobs you could do, but the world is open to you at 22. A colleague was just telling me that her college roommate bounced from place to place and job to job for a decade as a "diving bum," until the stars lined up and she finally realized she could turn her passion and experience into a career... and now she's on a team of deepsea treasure hunters, which is to me mindblowingly amazing. Even if you're not a trust fund baby, chances are you still have more luxuries and freedoms than most other people your age outside the most developed countries, as you probably realized during your summer teaching gig. You should take advantage of them.
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That sounds more like a great plan B if you don't get into a good school. Why not at least send in the applications and see what happens? If you don't get in you can always go get some more real world experience, beef up your portfolio, and try again later.

If you really want to be a director the clock is ticking. If you don't direct a Hollywood feature before age 35 you probably never will, unless you are already a movie star, successful producer, etc.

http://www.davidbordwell.net/blog/2007/09/13/the-magic-number-30-give-or-take-4/
 
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Gillvane said:
That sounds more like a great plan B if you don't get into a good school. Why not at least send in the applications and see what happens? If you don't get in you can always go get some more real world experience, beef up your portfolio, and try again later.

If you really want to be a director the clock is ticking. If you don't direct a Hollywood feature before age 35 you probably never will, unless you are already a movie star, successful producer, etc.

http://www.davidbordwell.net/blog/2007/09/13/the-magic-number-30-give-or-take-4/
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The way I quoted your post made it seem like I was contradicting you pointedly, but I wasn't really. I still think taking a year or two off after college is a good idea generally, not only to improve one's grad school chances but really to live and mature a bit, but there's probably no great harm in applying now and seeing what happens. Once in school he/she could also defer or take time off.

The debut statistics are sobering. I should also say that my references are mostly filmmakers who you'd call "independent" and "artists" and some documentarians. You see their stuff at festivals and film archives and in limited releases. Their satisfaction lies in being recognized by a small but informed and critical audience. If they're lucky they get collected by a museum. Once in while their docs get put on TV and netflix. Often they supplement their income with teaching, which they may well enjoy. Perhaps the OP would be a happy and fulfilled person doing those things.

If the OP's goal is to direct big-budget Hollywood features, then I don't know. The statistics for that are not just sobering but terrifying. Before he lists the debut statistics, Bordwell states in his very opening, "Your prospects are almost nil."
 
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