Does the script matter?

[Barry_Green]

But I'm sorry; the story is skull-crackingly dumb. In the hands of a director who wasn't a master at the very top of his game, it's the stuff of made-for-SyFy-Saturday-night fare.

Agreed. But whose fault is that? Without knowing, I would point the finger at Spielberg. Look at the script for Raiders -- the whole ending is entirely different from what ended up in the film.

All I'm saying is -- before condemning the screenwriter, y'all might want to actually read the script. If someone (say, Bill Martell) wrote a brilliant script that was so great that Hollywood agreed to greenlight it, and then brought in their development team and the director and they commenced the typical butchery that happens, and the final result bears no resemblance to what Martell wrote -- but they abide by their contractual obligation to credit "written by Bill Martell" -- do you still blame the writer? I wouldn't.

 

[David Jimerson]

Spielberg WAS the screenwriter.

But the point isn't blaming the screenwriter; it's that in the finished product, the story isn't always everything.

Which, of course, is no license not to have a story.

 

[bill totolo]

I don't think Kubrick ever limited himself to what was written in the script.
Or for that matter any legendary filmmaker: Fellini, Lynch, Antonioni, etc.

 

[Batutta]

But I'm sorry; the story is skull-crackingly dumb.

I wouldn't go so far as to call it dumb. Simple, maybe, but he didn't have anything complicated to say. The story rings true emotionally, it's wish fulfillment of the most religious kind, which was Spielberg's forte in the 70's-80's.

 

[arroway]

The vast majority of the worst movies ever to have been given a wide release are still, with all their faults, orders of magnitude better than the vast majority of amateur work.

Anyone who makes the claim boiling down to "Hollywood produces a lot of sh*t" should be encouraged to post their own work so as to allow for a fair comparison.

What we would likely find in such a scenario is that the amateurs work is more "artistically-inclined" and yet missing many of the key narrative components of structure, pacing, characterization, character arc, story logic, and arguably above all, story concept; without which their script could only be superior in intention as opposed to execution.

And execution is the only thing that matters.

 

[Barry_Green]

Spielberg WAS the screenwriter.

Nominally, yes, but there are four others credited in 'written by' on the IMDB page. And given the extreme lack of veracity in the "I stole my way onto the Universal lot and set myself up in an abandoned trailer" story, it wouldn't be surprising if Close Encounters was ghostwritten.

But the point isn't blaming the screenwriter; it's that in the finished product, the story isn't always everything.

I agree that this is entirely true -- in Spielberg movies. :evil:

But that begs the point -- how important is it? I think a lot depends on what else you've got. Most indie films don't have great actors, great cast, great cinematography, amazing fight scenes, unbelievable art direction, so the ONLY thing they can fall back on, is the story. Hollywood can make films with amazing casts, unbelievable cinematography, incredible fight scenes, amazing art direction, etc., and even if the story's so-so, they can still make an entertaining product.

If an indie wants to break through, their script had better be amazing, if they want to give themselves the best shot at "making it".

 

[Barry_Green]

The vast majority of the worst movies ever to have been given a wide release are still, with all their faults, orders of magnitude better than the vast majority of amateur work.

Absolutely agreed.

 

[MichaelP]

Both William Goldman books are great reads from the POV of a screenwriter: "Adventures in the Screentrade" and "Which Lie Did I Tell?"

Michael

 

[Mariella]

amazing casts, unbelievable cinematography, incredible fight scenes, amazing art direction, etc., and even if the story's so-so, they can still make an entertaining product.

My original question was with all the talented artists (and these artists are AMAZING) why do so many films miss the "entertaining product" part?

 

[David Jimerson]

Nominally, yes, but there are four others credited in 'written by' on the IMDB page. And given the extreme lack of veracity in the "I stole my way onto the Universal lot and set myself up in an abandoned trailer" story, it wouldn't be surprising if Close Encounters was ghostwritten.

Could be. Just going by the credits in the film itself. It's definitely his story, though.

I agree that this is entirely true -- in Spielberg movies. :evil:

But that begs the point -- how important is it? I think a lot depends on what else you've got. Most indie films don't have great actors, great cast, great cinematography, amazing fight scenes, unbelievable art direction, so the ONLY thing they can fall back on, is the story. Hollywood can make films with amazing casts, unbelievable cinematography, incredible fight scenes, amazing art direction, etc., and even if the story's so-so, they can still make an entertaining product.

If an indie wants to break through, their script had better be amazing, if they want to give themselves the best shot at "making it".

I mostly said all this.

 

[vcassel]

Entertaining? Completely relative and not at all qualifiable. Is there a particular film you had in mind?

 

[David G. Smith]

Nominally, yes, but there are four others credited in 'written by' on the IMDB page. And given the extreme lack of veracity in the "I stole my way onto the Universal lot and set myself up in an abandoned trailer" story, it wouldn't be surprising if Close Encounters was ghostwritten.


I agree that this is entirely true -- in Spielberg movies. :evil:

But that begs the point -- how important is it? I think a lot depends on what else you've got. Most indie films don't have great actors, great cast, great cinematography, amazing fight scenes, unbelievable art direction, so the ONLY thing they can fall back on, is the story. Hollywood can make films with amazing casts, unbelievable cinematography, incredible fight scenes, amazing art direction, etc., and even if the story's so-so, they can still make an entertaining product.

If an indie wants to break through, their script had better be amazing, if they want to give themselves the best shot at "making it".

I agree with this absolutely. Of course, it really boils down to money, for the most part and what needs to be understood is that PAPER IS CHEAP. The value of the script to the independent is paramount.

 

[Mariella]

I love movies. Entertainment isn't even on the list of things I love about them. Realized I had made a wrong turn (term) there. Entertainment is "Dancing With the Stars."
Sooooo much to learn.

 

[agcohn]

Spielberg WAS the screenwriter.

But the point isn't blaming the screenwriter; it's that in the finished product, the story isn't always everything.

Which, of course, is no license not to have a story.

Close Encounters was written and re-written by several different people (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Close_Encounters_of_the_Third_Kind#Development), including a first draft by Paul Schrader that everybody hated.

Spielberg wrote the final draft with Jerry Belson, who didn't receive credit.

You can read a bit about this in the Google Books preview of the Making Of book.

 

[jghenderson]

There's always an exception to the rule, but most of the time a great movie requires a great script. Not even Kubrick could take a really bad script and make a great movie.

 

[Ted Spencer]

The answer to this question should be about as hard to figure out as what a doctor would say when asked "Does it matter what I eat?".

 

[Batutta]

The answer to this question should be about as hard to figure out as what a doctor would say when asked "Does it matter what I eat?".

Kind of like asking, does a brain matter?...I suppose you could take a brainless woman around the block a few times and get your jollies, but she wouldn't be long term relationship material.

 

[Craig_Tarry]

Are there a lot of crummy scripts getting made into expensive movies which draw accolades? Its really scarey to think that some very touted movies can't be better with all the highly paid people involved. Is the attitude that movie goers will always go to the movies no matter the quality of the script? rogar-Smoke(DBG):

Well, it's a fact that the movie going public is full of people with bad taste. I've sat in a theater watching trailers for really bad comedy features and people around me were laughing at the worst gags imaginable. So, yeah there's always going to be bad movies that are successful, but by and large really good movies start with a really good script, because the best directors and the A list stars want a good script.
It’s the studios that put out the trash just to make money.

 

[Nektonic]

IMO, the fact that the industry is half-business, half-art, permanently entangled, is part of why it is so strong. If anything went, like all the other arts (except perhaps the music industry), the film industry would have sunk decades ago. But because the search is for scripts that can attract name talent, big box office rewards, and critical acclaim, it means screenwriters have to be half-business, half-art, too. So you have to cut it as a writer and as a salesman.

That's just my take.

True, but sometimes a writer will write something wild and crazy or just plain unconventional for the pure enjoyment of writing it. Then, if it is interesting or original enough, this unconventional screenplay will at the very least stand out from the crowd, and also stands to get the writer some notice. Even if agents, producers, and execs don't think it is something that can be green-lit, if they see a strong or distinct writer's voice and passion and original ideas on the page, they might then hire this writer to adapt something or write another script.

Also, I think writing something "out-of-the-box" is a good way to sort of reboot our writer minds between writing more conventional fare. Being solely limited to writing what we think Hollywood wants can drive a person mad.

 

[Batutta]

if they see a strong or distinct writer's voice and passion and original ideas on the page, they might then hire this writer to adapt something or write another script.

That's right...and then they will proceed to pummel the ever living crap out of that original voice and passion until all that's left is a flaccid shell of crushing mediocrity.