Does James Horner recycle his music?

[Denis Haineault]

I've only seen Avatar once, but there's a little melody in it that got stuck in my head because I knew I'd heard it before. I think it's during the sequence where the soldiers are attacking the giant tree...or around that point.

At first I thought it was in Titanic when they're about to collide with the iceberg but the momentum of the boat is working against them. Then I thought it was Wrath of Khan when the two ships are looking for each other in the nebula. Then it hit me: Enemy at the Gates! It's the same 4 notes little melody used a number of times in that movie that is also used in Avatar, and both from James Horner.

It it were a different composer, I wouldn't think much of it. But coming from the same composer makes it appear a bit lazy on Horner's part.

Anyone else recognized that melody?

 

[Batutta]

He's legendary for ripping himself off. That little riff is almost identical to the one he did in Willow.

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I AGREE

The score for Aliens is basically a remix of Wolfen and Star Trek II. I heard everything from Aliens, Glory, Willow, Titanic here. Here's a youtube comparison vid of recent scores of his--

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I AGREE

 

[Sad Max]

The fact that you're asking the question suggests to me that you haven't heard very many of his scores...

 

[Batutta]

I think it's okay for a composer to have a 'sound', but when you start re-using melodies is when it crosses the line into laziness. That said, I still like his work. What he recycles is effective, and every now and then he surprises with something original.

 

[Sad Max]

I enjoy Horner's stuff - particularly where he breaks his own mold - and in truth I don't mind sitting through a movie thinking every few minutes Wrath of Khan...Battle Beyond the Stars...Apollo 13...Glory...Aliens...etc...etc...etc

 

[Denis Haineault]

The fact that you're asking the question suggests to me that you haven't heard very many of his scores...

I can't say I'm familiar with his scores, or that I spend my time thinking about other movies his (or others) music might sound like. It's just that one that stood out and I noticed.

 

[Sad Max]

I think the more of his stuff you hear, the more you'll notice it. I know that it bothers some listeners but it doesn't make me enjoy it any less...

 

[Denis Haineault]

I have to say that this music bit works well in both movies, and would also have worked well in the other ones I thought they were from originally.

 

[Jester2138]

In no way does Avatar deserve a nomination for best score.

 

[TimurCivan]

Avatar had a score? I couldn't hear anything over the sound of my brain imploding.....


Ahh.... I love that movie.... best popcorn flick ever....

 

[Mark Harris]

Ha ha, last night after the super bowl, we popped in TWOK to watch on my buddy's HUGE ASSED projector TV, and this topic came up.

BTW, I have never been into using a 1080p projector as a TV, but holy hell, with the blue-ray twok, I was sold. It was literally like being in a movie theater. Def time to spend some money I don't have...

 

[Drew Ott]

I've also heard John Williams rip himself off. John Barry too.

 

[Blaine]

Is this one of the Geico commercials?

 

[jleo]

Star Wars Theme borrowed from Korngold :

http://www.reelclassics.com/Audio_Video/Music7q/clips/korngold_kingsrow_maintitle_clip.mp3

If you listen to the entire second movement of William Alwyn Symphony #2, much of it sounds exactly like Bernard Hermanns score for North By Northwest written 6 yrs later:

http://www.amazon.com/William-Alwyn-Symphonies-Angelica-Concerto/dp/B000A17GGK

 

[Batutta]

Star Wars Theme borrowed from Korngold :

http://www.reelclassics.com/Audio_Video/Music7q/clips/korngold_kingsrow_maintitle_clip.mp3

Yeah, that's an old one. Definitely parts of the riff there...but hey, when the director says 'Give me a Korngold' score, that's what you do.

 

[Sad Max]

Well, let's not forget that the Imperial theme (not the march from EP.V but the BUH-buh-buh-buh-buh-BUH-buh-buh bit from EP.IV) is straight out of Holst's "Mars, Bringer of War..."

 

[Drew Ott]

Star Wars is the same thing as Superman.

 

[Batutta]

Star Wars is the same thing as Superman.

In the broadest sense yes, there are structural similarities, instruments used are similar, but the melodies and arrangements are different. Horner gets flack because he re-uses the same few notes, in the same arrangements, over and over again.

 

[Drew Ott]

In the broadest sense yes, there are structural similarities, instruments used are similar, but the melodies and arrangements are different. Horner gets flack because he re-uses the same few notes, in the same arrangements, over and over again.

The chord progression and structure are the same. You can play them on top of each other.

 

[Batutta]

The chord progression and structure are the same. You can play them on top of each other.

It's just not as obvious. Horner just duplicates himself wholesale. Williams at least makes an effort.