F5: Does anyone have experience of camera "shares" and how it has (or has not!) worked

T

TheEngineer

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Does anyone have experience of camera "shares" and how it has (or has not!) worked

Really tempted to buy an F5 (maybe even the F55) but if I am brutally honest with myself I don't have enough high paying jobs to justify it!

I am contemplating looking to see if I can find someone (maybe more than one) interested in partnering with me.

Anyone done this in the past?

Any advice, suggestions, pitfalls?

Thanks

TE
 
I thought of it, but also thought of it as a hassle too.

You could form a corporation, become equal share holders, the corporation owns the camera. That is from legal point of view but forming a corporation costs money and legal fees, not to mention annual income tax returns and possibly hiring an accountant.

There are other problems however: where does the camera reside, who pays for repairs? What is the booking process to prevent double bookings, what if its booked on a feature for 30 days? What if it is stolen, does the corporation additionally pay money into the pot to insure its assets?

Lastly, nothing prevents the other "share holder" from taking off with it and that in itself can be a huge risk. Sure you formed a corporation but now you need to hire lawyers to straighten out the mess.

There may be other ways to do this but the best way is to own it yourself and rent it out to help pay off some of the camera. Otherwise if you can't afford the camera then you can't afford the camera. So just rent one yourself as needed for project to project.
 
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TheEngineer said:
Really tempted to buy an F5 (maybe even the F55) but if I am brutally honest with myself I don't have enough high paying jobs to justify it!

Any advice, suggestions, pitfalls?

TE
Click to expand...

I have the exact same problem; how to justify an F5. I'm thinking that you have landed on the right solution for me.. Higher paying jobs! ;)
 
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starcentral pretty much outlined what would worry me. Further, I don't recommend chasing gear anyway. If you pitch a budgeted job, factor in rental. If the monies there the client will pay it. Get enough where the cost of buying makes more financial sense than renting and you're set.
 
over the long term, partnering lessens your up-front costs. but it only really makes sense if you think you're likely to get more work for the camera than your partner, and you can book the camera before he/she does. however, it does mean that you can get access to a camera for less than you'd have to pay otherwise. but you probably won't feel that way when you have to go and pay rental for a job because your partner has booked the camera for two weeks.

here's another way to look at it; you're paying less at the outset, but you may delay the point at which the camera pays for itself due to it not being available for every job. so... it could be a wash. part of that algorithm has to be the reduced shelf-life of cameras these days. also, if you don't own it outright, is it available for messing around, doing pro bono or reduced rate jobs, or favors for friends? if you and your partner are paying into a kitty for each job, you're making money every time the camera is working, but it also costs you money if you're using it. if not, is your parter's booking to shoot his friend's wedding going to preclude your 3-day job?

insurance.

who pays your rental if your partner damages the camera and puts it in for repair for three weeks?

there are lots of things to consider. if you decide to partner, at the very least you want to be sure your partner is a conscientious professional who will take responsibility for getting the camera to you for your bookings on time, no matter what. you cannot put yourself in a position where you don't have a camera at 8pm for your 7am call the next morning.
 
I would say that it could be anywhere from fantastic to horrible. I started a rental company with this concept and it did not work. We spent 6 months planning every contingency we could think of and it was a pain. Fortunately, no friendships were damaged permanently in the process. After that, I did a few more deals with other people with marginal results. Generally, it always seemed to be a hassle more than anything. I gave up and only purchased what I could afford on my own. how much to charge, who does maintenance, who is going to prep the package between jobs, who's house do you keep it, what happens when a job gets extended and then overlaps the other guys job, etc, etc, etc....

I also owned a shared airplane, same story. I would not do it again.
 
I think it would depend a lot on the arrangement you had for it. If I was going in halvesies with someone on a camera, I'd expect to split any rental income from the camera 50:50 and any maintenance costs 50:50 - whoever books it for a job first gets use of it for that time-period, but any rental income from the camera being employed on a job (and you'd have to figure out a standard rate that would be billed each time the camera's brought out), gets split 50:50.

If you're going in for half the cost/risk/investment, you get half the reward.

That way, the question of 'who brought in the work' doesn't become an issue, because the camera's treated as a joint investment, neither person would be able to put it to use if you hadn't both invested in the camera. So any income from the camera specifically, gets shared straight down the middle.

You'd need to figure out clauses for paid work for the camera always taking priority over personal (profitless) shoots. But other than that, I think it could work if you sorted out a system that works for everyone.
 
Thanks everyone for your replies which pretty much confirm what I was thinking!

What muddies the water for me is that I spend most of my doing other things in broadcast, which is what pays the bills, so cannot commit full time to filming.

I could drop £10,000 ($15,000) into a camera half share and if it didn't work out it would hurt (and my wife would never let me forget it!) but it wouldn't be a disaster as it would for many people.

Part of the reason for buying rather than renting is that I live a fair way from any rental houses (2 hour drive) and sometimes like to shoot "on spec" or if an opportunity arises unexpectedly.

Decisions, decisions!

Thanks again for your advice.

TE
 
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TheEngineer said:
Really tempted to buy an F5 (maybe even the F55) but if I am brutally honest with myself I don't have enough high paying jobs to justify it!

I am contemplating looking to see if I can find someone (maybe more than one) interested in partnering with me.

Anyone done this in the past?

Any advice, suggestions, pitfalls?

Thanks

TE
Click to expand...

1/ Yes, done it once.
2/ Would never do it again.

If you can't justify affording the gear, find a camera owner nearby, build some trust and do a deal to rent from them per gig.

Good luck..........
 
As a certifed "gear nut", I would love to get F5. Even F55!
But, the way new cameras cycle goes, less than 2 years I know that it will be harder and harder to write off the new gear so fast (or faster)... We all know, that in order to get that "special job" , first thing in the budget that gets deducted is camera rental fee... So, I am sticking with F3 at least until my lease is done in 2014. After that, I will think hard before going for a new gear, again for all reasons from the start of my reply. If I really need "brand new 4K whatever", I will go down the street to Joe's and rent it for that "special job" and F3 will be good for all other "bread and butter" stuff...
 
Why don't you buy the camera and rent it out to your "partner"? Make a decent down payment on it and borrow what you need for the rest. I don't know what interest rates are like there but money is pretty cheap here in the US. I would imagine that 1 rental a month would easily pay your loan payment. Plus, if the nearest rental house is 2 hours away - you might have a good market to rent it out in your area.
 
Tata Steva said:
As a certifed "gear nut", I would love to get F5. Even F55!
But, the way new cameras cycle goes, less than 2 years I know that it will be harder and harder to write off the new gear so fast (or faster)... We all know, that in order to get that "special job" , first thing in the budget that gets deducted is camera rental fee... So, I am sticking with F3 at least until my lease is done in 2014. After that, I will think hard before going for a new gear, again for all reasons from the start of my reply. If I really need "brand new 4K whatever", I will go down the street to Joe's and rent it for that "special job" and F3 will be good for all other "bread and butter" stuff...
Click to expand...


Honestly, I don't think we will need 4K, as in nobody accepting 1080p or just asking for 4k for at least 4-5 more years.
 
Another thought, but I haven't tried it. You buy the camera, but for a fee ($5000? etc.), you find someone that you will give 10 free days for personal projects, and a reduced rental price (half normal?) if available. In short make them an offer they can't refuse. Also you preset a price (prorated) for which you can buy out their contract. But could be away to lose a friend.
 
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